{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/x05x63cd41/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Tony Wasserman FOSSDA Interview (Bryan Behrenshausen)"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/204/original/FOSSDA%285%29.jpg?1666825306","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Bryan Behrenshausen","Tony Wasserman"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-05-29"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Tony Wasserman on the early days of open source"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MPEG-4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["wasserman","unix","behrenshausen","osi","berkeley"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["TheirStory"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Tony Wasserman on the early days of open source"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Free Open Source Stories Digital Archive"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Free Open Source Stories Digital Archive"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/204/original/FOSSDA%285%29.jpg?1666825306","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/189/260/small/open-uri20230602-81311-8tztty_1685674406.jpg?1685674409","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20230602-81311-8tztty.mp4"]},"duration":4461.92,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/189/260/small/open-uri20230602-81311-8tztty_1685674406.jpg?1685674409","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-fossda.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/189/260/original/open-uri20230602-81311-8tztty.mp4?1685674385","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4461.92,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["TheirStory Transcript (Paragraphs with Speakers) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Bryan Behrenshausen interviewing Tony Wasserman for the FOSSDA project. Tony, thanks so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. I want to start just to talk about your early academic pursuits, I guess, because I'm trying to paint a picture of what gets a person attracted to open source and how different people find their ways into computer science and open source. And so I want to talk about about where you went to college and what you went to college for. I think you were a double major, is that right? It's true. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about where you went to school and what you went to school for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=0.18,39.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So I went to Cal, University of California, Berkeley. I went there from Coral Gables, Florida of all places. So I have my parents to thank for letting me go all the way across the country. And it was really because I think my father always wanted to move to California and didn't. And so it seemed like the place to go. So I did a double major in math and physics at Berkeley, and I took my first computing course as a junior at Cal. And it was very quickly obvious to me that I was much better at programming and computing than I was at math or physics. And so having gone through Berkeley, I then went to graduate school at University of Wisconsin, Madison. And my original thought was that I would go for a master's degree, but they gave me money and made me an RA and encouraged me to stay. So eventually I got a doctorate in, of all things, artificial intelligence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=40.56,118.849"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I want to talk about that a little bit then too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=119.471,121.861"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So that was very early in the AI days during the initial wave of excitement, which then went to sleep for 50 years. So that was my academic education and coming out. I think the two things that stuck with me from my graduate school was one, writing interactive programs because the technology at the time was really primitive. Rolls of teletype paper that printed 10 uppercase characters per second and clattered as it did it. So when you put this in front of somebody who was unfamiliar with computers, as I had to do for my research, it was really quite an interesting exercise and taught me a lot at this very, very early stage of computing about user experiences and human computer interaction. And And I did a little bit more work on that over the years. So that was one thing that I came away with. And the other thing that I came away with was how to architect large software systems, because my dissertation program got to be quite large and being able to read all this code after you've you've written it for years. And even if it's your own code, being able to do all these things that we now take for granted in software engineering levels of abstraction and modularization. I went back and I looked at this 50-plus-year-old code not too long ago, and it was written in ALGOL. I've only ever heard of that language. I don't think I've ever even seen it. ALGOL is wonderful. I mean, it was perfect for these stack architectures machines. And ALGOL predates Fortran, actually. Not by much, but it does. Yeah. And it was much more of an international effort. So it was great. And I did this on a Burroughs computer. You've probably never heard of Burroughs computers either. But at the time, it was IBM and the seven dwarfs, RCA and General Electric and Honeywell and Burroughs and UNIVAC and Control Data. That's six. That's not bad. There's a seventh. Oh, scientific data systems. So that's seven. Those are the seven dwarfs. And IBM had like 70% market share. But that was where I did my work, and I learned about how to design large systems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=121.922,296.676"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So I want to... That's fascinating. I want to back up a little bit, just talk about that crossroads that you found yourself at. You sort of glossed over something I think is all too common for folks in academe. And that is, you had a set of interests that led you into certain fields, in this case, math and physics. And then there was something, and you said, because you were better at it. But I would venture to say that there's probably a lot of things you're good at or better at than math and physics that you didn't go into. So I guess my question is twofold. One, what do you think it was about you as a person that initially got started, math and physics? What about your personality led you to those fields? And then can you remember the moment where you realized like, oh, this is where I'm meant to go? Do you have any memories?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=297.361,355.456"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e A little bit. I mean, from the time that I was very young, I was good at arithmetic and mathematics and memory numbers, all things numerical. And so it seemed like the natural direction. And when you're in elementary school or middle school or high school, there are certain things that you don't have to worry at all. You just got it made. If you're at that level. And so it always seemed to me that my ability in mathematics was so natural, and that was reinforced by SAT scores and high school grades and all those kinds of things. So when it came time to pick a major, it wasn't as much as I'm interested in history, for example. I see. I see. And actually took some history courses at Cal. It wasn't what I was going to do with my life. I always had the impression that you could make a living at mathematics. And I guess that's true still. Yeah, I assume so. But I also assume that when you were in school, in primary school,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=357.063,438.151"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e you didn't have access to computers, right? You wouldn't have known that you had an affinity for computational mathematics or computer science or computer hardware in general, because your first exposure to them was probably at the university level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=441.02,455.313"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. That's correct. Because when I was seven years old, there was a national election, and they had the UNIVAC brain. Yes, I remember. Well, I've seen the footage. Predicting the outcome of the election. And that was kind of my first introduction to computing, and and they made it seem so mystical. It was kind of there in the back of my mind. But computing really was not an issue for people, certainly not until the late 1950s, when banks and airlines and the like began using them for a lot of their routine things. Of course, computers were used in the defense and military areas, but that was not an area that I knew anything about, nor did I have any interest in. So I've done a PhD as well, and in my field in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=456.081,526.397"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e communication studies, the dissertation involves essentially like the production of a large monograph, essentially like a book-length monograph. But from what I understand, you you were saying earlier, your dissertation project involved, I'm sure, a significant amount of writing, but also building a program. Is that right? That's right. I mean, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=526.5,546.255"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e my dissertation runs 200 some odd pages. I think I have a digital copy of it on this machine somewhere. But because it was systems-oriented, you had to build something and demonstrate it. So the code was somewhere above 10,000 lines. I don't remember the exact count, but it was a fair amount of code. And what specific dissertation or what specific problem was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=546.42,577.454"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e your dissertation trying to figure out? What were you tackling? The title of the dissertation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=577.5,583.335"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e was Achievement of Skill and Generality in an Artificial Intelligence Program, which is a problem that exists to this day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=583.4,590.812"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e What do they call Alexa add-ons, right? They call them skills. You download skills for your Alexa, right? We don't have any listening devices in my house. I don't either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=594.763,606.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Except for this. One of the things that strikes me as particularly interesting about the OpenAI and the GPT-4 and BARD technologies is that they do cover, they have one skill that they're really, really good at, which is information retrieval and compression and restatement. But it works across a wide variety of domains. Because the other day, for example, I asked BARD to help me plan a couple of days of sightseeing on an upcoming trip. And it gave me a very nice list of suggestions. At one o'clock in the afternoon, do this. At three o'clock in the afternoon, do that. Go have tapas at this place at this time. It was pretty impressive. What was your dissertation specifically?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=607.844,670.435"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e What did your program do with regard to AI? It was the world's best bridge bidding program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=671.021,677.755"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Because at the time, there was, of course, checkers, which was very early and not not such a huge problem to build a skillful program. But people were starting to work on chess, of course, at that time. And chess is a combinatorially difficult problem. And it turns out that bridge the same way, the number of hands that can be dealt and the division of them among multiple players, turns out that it's hard. And the technology that I used, there were two or three technologies, but what I used was rule-based. So that you had to, there there are ways, standard ways to evaluate the cards in your hand and to interpret the bids that your partner makes to help you come up with a final bid or maybe seat to the opposition, the contract that's to be made. Now, later on, after I had left the university, I did, in fact, work with one other person and we built the play of the hand part and it played quite well. And the fascinating thing about it is that we found somebody who wanted to manufacture a box, right? So there's an item called the Goran Bridge Master. And you can find them, they're very scarce, but on bidding sites, you can find them. And I have one that's kind of unopened, untouched. But the asking price was $350, which is, you know, it limited the appeal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=677.76,795.048"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that was 1970s dollars, $350, 1970s dollars, not the cost of the one from the internet that you bought. Right. Ah, gotcha. Yeah, that limits your audience a little bit. Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=801.381,813.334"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, a little bit prohibitive. And so, and of course, they didn't spend as much money as they might have on marketing. So who knows? There was no social media to get the word out. So we might have had a different outcome in a modern era with a different price point and a different marketing message, but that's something we'll never know. Yeah, right. So when then did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=813.56,842.796"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e you first encounter the idea of open source software? So I think it came about in two ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=842.82,852.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e The first was that I was aware of the things like IBM Share and Guide, which were, you know, these annual meetings where the company would talk about its future plans, and people brought software to share. And the mentality at the time was very, very different. That is, it's the hardware that's expensive, and the software isn't worth anything. You know, here's my routine to perform this calculation. Here's this one to compute some trajectory, you know, share and share alike. And so that was something I knew about. I didn't have any particular use for it at the time. But then when UNIX came in the 1970s, I was on the faculty at UC San Francisco, and then I was also a lecturer at Berkeley, where I taught data structures and operating systems and things like that. And Berkeley at the time got one of the earliest PDP 1170, well, I think it was a 45 originally, that ran at least part of the day it ran UNIX. And then very quickly, they had machines that ran UNIX all the time. And Berkeley received a grant from the United States Department of of Defense that involved enhancing AT\u0026T UNIX. So Berkeley got the source code to AT\u0026T UNIX. And they made a bunch of changes, virtual memory being the one that is perhaps the most significant. They made this all run on a digital equipment corporation, VAX 11780, and distributed it. And the license from AT\u0026T was a commercial license. But in the, in the academic setting, with government money being spent, then then the license was different. And so they created the BSD license. Nobody used the term open source software at that point. It was the BSD license. And so anybody could obtain the software, or you could go spend $43,000 with AT\u0026T to get the commercial one. And, you know, there's a history here of different hardware vendors, either supporting the AT\u0026T version of the UNIX or the modified Berkeley version of UNIX. But, but the, the Berkeley version certainly won out in academia because the price was right. And so we got to a point where almost every computer science department had a a VAX and ran UNIX and students learned a lot of their computing on UNIX. Things like the VI editor were developed by Bill Joy at, at Berkeley. And, you know, he had a different version of UNIX of, I'm sorry, VI every day. So you could, yes, it was really a model for the kind of rinse, lather and repeat. So it was a, it was a very agile approach to building the software before anybody used the term agile to describe the process. So, so that's, you know, that's the origin of VI. And so that, what that led to, I was working on a project in, at UC San Francisco, project was called user software engineering. And the term was coined because software engineering was the big thing, right? Top down design and this kind of thing. And I said, well, you know, if you're building interactive systems, people don't really care about how your system is architected. So, so we were doing what I call the outside in engineering. So getting, getting user interface right. And if you think about this the user interface in that era, as I said before, was extremely primitive. We had moved on from TTY terminals to 24 by 80 visual displays that looked like a TV set with a keyboard. They were monochrome, you know, black on white was really sophisticated. Green on black was more common. And there were, there were thousands of different manufacturers of these terminals. And so one of the things that they had to do in Unix was to create a library that was dependent on the characteristics of each terminal. This was a library called Curses, which is a funny, funny name for it. Anyway, to come back to the UCSF situation, we were doing UCSF, we're doing user software engineering. And so we were building tools to support this method, because to me, you can have a method for building software, but tools exist to support a method. So since most of the applications we were concerned with at the time were conversational access to databases, we built a database system. And this was at a very early stage, building a relational database system. You know, the research papers were written in 1970. And the first relational database systems showed up at the end of the 1970s. System R, IBM Research, and Ingress at Berkeley, and a couple of others. So we built a tool for user interface prototyping. And we built a database management system, and we made them available. And we made them available under a BSD license. So we licensed the people who licensed the software from the University of California, San Francisco, or from the regents of the University of California, they could have it and use it. And we got a reasonably good reaction to it, which led us forward, because people came and said, well, who's going to support all of this stuff? Yes, the universities were fine, they would play with it. But once somebody in companies wanted it, then, you know, the IT manager said, well, you know, who's going to support, we can't use this unless there's support for it. And back to us and say, well, who's going to support it? And we said, okay, we'll do it. And so that led to our starting a company. And the products that we had, the things that we built at UCSF were foundations for the computer aided software engineering tools that we built. They ran on some workstations and all of the other engineering workstations of that era. And most of the software we built in the company was proprietary. But those pieces that we had licensed from the University of California, we put a clause in our license agreement that talked about this particular part of the software that was part of what we were distributing. So we were distributing open source software in 1980. Yeah, before that even existed. Right, right. Exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=853.58,1387.026"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly. And, and, you know, Berkeley Unix was being distributed the same way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1387.161,1392.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So there was this community around it. And Ingress at Berkeley was also distributed under a BSD license. And Mike Stonebraker, who was the lead on that project, also started a company called Relational Technology initially. And it was just down the road from campus in Berkeley. But they were quite successful with Relational Technology, which became Ingress, which eventually got acquired by somebody, I don't know. And what was the name of your company again? Interactive Development Environments, IDE. And the product was called Software Through Pictures. Ah, okay. So we were one of the first products to include open source software. I think we were second. I think Sun Microsystems was first. Okay. Sun basically took Berkeley Unix, they hired Bill Joy and other people from Berkeley. And they created Sun OS, which was a closed operating system. So, you know, just as our product was closed at that point, so was theirs. And so they were 1982. And we didn't start IDE until 1983. And we didn't release anything to paying users until 1984. At the very end of 1984, it actually turned out we did our launch at a Sun user group meeting on election day in 1984.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1394.743,1501.599"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah. Wow. So I'm trying to determine how I want to ask this follow up question. So I guess it's twofold. One, did you ever, did you always intend to work in the private sector like that, let alone start a company? And second, did you ever think that you would start a company selling software? You know, by your own admission, when you got started in the field, the software was the trivial part. It was the hardware that was expensive. Now, here you are, what a decade later, you're building a business on the buying and selling of software. So did you intend to do you ever? Did you foresee that path for yourself? Was that desirable? Or did did it just kind of play out that way? Yeah, I think that it's accurate to say that it played","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1502.921,1551.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e out that way. But I wanted to come back to something you said a moment ago, software is not software was not trivial. I mean, all the software that was being built in the 1960s broke. That's why. That's why NATO sponsored the conferences that led to software engineering as a discipline, right? There was a NATO conference in Garmisch, Germany at the end of 1968, and a follow up in Rome at late in 1969. And there are these two volumes that came out of it. And many of the famous early people in the software engineering community participated in this, which in effect, defined software engineering, and recognized that building software was anything but trivial. Maybe I should Yeah, that's I miss I misspeak when I say that maybe I should say sort of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1551.26,1604.092"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e economically trivial, right? Or by your going by what you were talking about how to earlier like that it was everybody thought the money was in the hardware. The software was just the stuff that you passed around freely to it was not as valuable hardware was right. So. So it wasn't business on it. Yeah, but it wasn't until software was perceived to have value,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1604.64,1627.876"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e that it made sense to have a business. So the, the earliest commercial software was a sorting program in the mid 1960s. And that was that came about because in 1964, IBM announced the IBM, the system 360. So in in the before that they had commercial machines that were decimal oriented, and scientific machines that were binary oriented to completely different lines of machines. And so system 360 says, Well, you know, we're going to do it all. And oh, by the way, we're going to build a family of machines from small to large, that they had less power than than your mobile phone, but but but they did go small to large. And so somebody said, Well, you know, all these commercial businesses need a sorting program. And it's going to run on all these IBM 360. And so that was the start of the commercial software business in the mid 1960s. And, and then there were some data management programs that that came about not too long thereafter. Things like total, which nobody's ever heard of at this at this time, but it was a big thing in its time. And so so the software industry began to develop in the 1970s. And that, you know, that opened up a possibility. But I think that my switching from academia to to industry was was driven by several things. One is sort of being in the right place at the right time. place at the right time. I mean, the the the energy, the buzz around Unix, certainly was influential. And then my early exposure to Sun Microsystems, because the among the first machines that were available were available were given to Berkeley. And so my students and I had an opportunity very early on to build this graphical software that took advantage of the large bitmap bitmap display, which was kind of cool at the time, right? The computer aided design programs had preceded computer aided software engineering engineering by a couple of years. But, you know, you sort of you put one and one together and say, hey, we have this unique technology, we have people who want us to support it. We have these ideas about tools for doing software design. And, you know, there are a lot of other people starting companies these days, and we're at least as smart as they are. So we thought. So off we went. And the company, we got financial funding, we were actually IDE was one of the first hundred dot coms. So, you know, you think today of the millions and millions and millions, we were number 78.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1628.621,1831.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you know that number?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1834.768,1835.652"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Because there's a website called first hundred dot coms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1836.462,1839.152"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And how do they do that? Like they rank them or they note them based on when you like incorporated like your incorporation date or the or registered you registered the domain name or what's the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1839.881,1849.994"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it was the domain registration that triggered it. So so a company like Symbolics, which is a LISP machine, an AI oriented machine. I think they were number one. And, you know, who's heard of Symbolics these days? Right. So so it's a question of being in the right place in the right time and putting one and one together. I would say it was fairly opportunistic because I gave up a tenured faculty position.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1850.44,1879.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that's not easy to leave leave behind for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1880.36,1882.671"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, we the world was changing. And so we were able to build a company that had a really leading edge technology and it ran on leading edge hardware. We had a very good partnership with Sun Microsystems because we were one of their first third party software vendors. And what the salespeople discovered was that. When people bought our software, they would also buy hardware because they would buy our computer aided software engineering tools and put it on a Sun workstation and, you know, equip an engineer that way. And so the Sun salespeople got the idea right away. Gee, we should work with Tony and with IDE because that's a good way for us to sell hardware. Yeah. So we had access to Sun offices everywhere. And there's some very funny stories about demonstrating our product in China in nineteen eighty six and in on the Isle of Capri in Italy or off the coast in the same time frame. Getting a machine into these places. Yeah, that's right. Especially in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1883.621,1970.294"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e China and the 80s. How are you going to commandeer it for a demo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1970.68,1974.873"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yeah. And physically move it, I would assume. Right. Like the you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1976.023,1979.836"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e because the stuff was pretty fragile. Right. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Right. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a big display. Right. 17 inch display.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1979.884,1986.55"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And yeah, it was a Motorola 68000 processor in there until Sun replaced it with their own. So, it with their own. So, yeah, getting it around was non-trivial. So, you know, that was fun. You get to see the world and do software. And you had this little bit of open source software in it. Yeah. open source software in it. Yeah. And so you were doing open source software before there was open source software, as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1990.001,2017.024"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e open source software, as we established. When did you first hear people start to talk about open source, use the phrase open source software? Well, what you heard first was free software. Because you had RMS, Richard Stallman at MIT, first was free software. Because you had RMS, Richard Stallman at MIT, who thought that all software should be free.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2017.024,2030.226"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And he may still think that. And so you have, you know, the GNU project with its C compiler and some of the tools. And you had Richard, who was very adamant about the problem that he was encountering with a Canon laser printer, because he had no access to the source code. This is. And so this led to the Free Software Foundation in the mid 1980s. And so this notion of free software was out there. And while it was absolutely okay with them, that people made money from software, the it wasn't really the whole notion wasn't pitched at companies and suggesting that they use open source. So it wasn't really until after the open source initiative got created, and the Apache agreement was made with IBM for Apache to be part of their Java Enterprise Edition product, that the term open source began to to get circulated and used. So I would say it was right about the turn of the millennium when, when I became more of the millennium when, when I became more aware of it. And then by then I had, you know, IDE had been merged with some other companies, because our investors thought that was the thing to do. And so I left and I joined a startup, which wasn't going to be successful. But I learned Java Enterprise Edition at that point. And that got me to my next job, which was with a great small company And that got me to my next job, which was with a great small company called Bluestone Software. They were based, they were based in South Jersey. Oh, my gosh. So you don't associate New Jersey with software. No, not, not, it's not, it's not the Silicon Valley of the East, for sure. But they were the best Java software for miles in any direction, including creeping into Pennsylvania, which wasn't all that far away. And so so I ran their West Coast Development Lab, far away. And so so I ran their West Coast Development Lab, and we built tools that were actually to run on mobile devices to talk to a Java Enterprise server. And we gave away, and we gave away the code. devices to talk to a Java Enterprise server. And we gave away, and we gave away the code. Okay, under the terms of a license, I'm assuming. No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2036.56,2217.267"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So, because by that time,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2219.92,2221.083"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Bluestone had sold itself to Hewlett Packard. And so when we wanted to give away the software, they said, Oh, yeah, yeah, you can give it away. You can. But they had no clue of that open source at that point, which is funny, because Hewlett Packard was one of the true leaders in open source and in adoption of open source, their group in Colorado Springs. Some very well known people in the open source community were there, Stormy Peters, who you probably know from her stint at Microsoft and at GitHub. Phil Robb, who runs open source for Ericsson here in the United States. And several other people, I mean, there was a really, they were really avant garde, if you will, when it comes to They built the whole Fossology lab. But this other little corner of Hewlett Packard didn't do open source. So we gave away the source code, but it didn't have an open source license. So in theory, we retained the copyright to it. Actually, in practice, we retained the copyright to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2225.36,2316.494"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So you mentioned a couple names of folks, you know, from those days. What do you remember about your early encounters, I guess, with people in the open source ecosystem early on when it was in its genesis?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2317.081,2333.91"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, part of that, of course, is based on what we mean by genesis. Yeah, right. You know, I mean, there are people who were there at the very beginning, Bruce Perens, for example, and Brian Bellendorf, who was at CollabNet. And I didn't meet them till later. And because I hadn't really sunk into that community yet. But what happened was, in 2004, I was running product development for another startup that was not going to be successful. But you know, 90% of them failed. So okay. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. It wasn't my startup. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it was two guys who had, I think, a promising idea. And they built the company, they built the product, and the company stuck around for a little while. But I didn't. In 2004, it turns out I went to the International Conference on Software Engineering in Edinburgh. And one of the people that I ran into there, I've been going to these international conferences on software engineering since the very first one in the mid 70s. So one of the people I met there was Martin Griss, who I had known for many years. He ran the research lab at Hewlett Packard for a long time. And then he had just joined the brand new Carnegie Mellon campus that's in Silicon Valley, which for people who know the geography, is on the NASA Ames Research Park in Mountain View. So Martin says to me, hey, you know, we're doing, we're getting this academic program in software engineering started out here. Why don't you come around and take a look. One thing led to another. And in 2005, I joined the faculty there. And one of the things that came out of that was that I wanted to be able to establish a research program in addition to the course that I taught. And so for a research topic, I picked open source. Okay. And not building open source code so much as evaluation and adoption and use of open source. I see. Okay. And so, you know, I went off and started talking to people at the time. Microsoft was, of course, totally dominant in the software industry, both in terms of the Windows operating system and also with Microsoft Office Suite. So you really didn't do much computing on the desktop without Microsoft. So one of the first places I looked was at Microsoft to see what they were doing. At the time, Steve Ballmer, who was their CEO at the time, was saying things like the open source is a cancer. Open source is a communist plot. You know, here are all these people in t-shirts hanging out in, you know, in rooms writing code and sharing it and giving it away when it has value. But it turns out that they had a guy who was responsible for monitoring what was going on in open source. And I met him. And then he didn't last all that long. And then the next person in that link was Sam Ramji, who has been, I think, a key part of the open source community for a long time. And he's still active. Anyway, so in addition to that, we were beginning to see a number of open source projects pop up. One of the best known is MySQL, which started in the mid 90s, 1994. And we also saw the huge growth of Linux, which started from 1991. And Red Hat, your former employer, you know, started doing Linux in 1994 or so. And so there was this momentum started to build up. But so these were, you know, things that were, I think, very influential in driving the Unix community, or the Linux community and the open source community. We began to see conferences. It was the open source business conference, which was focused on commercial adoption. There was the open source think tank, which was this much smaller meeting, chaired by Andrew Aitken, who eventually ended up running the open source business for Wipro, the Indian services company. And so, you know, these names keep reappearing, popping up, yeah, as people move around. And so you had, you also had the wiki movement, there were a number of different wikis that came about, of which the best known, of course, is MediaWiki because of Wikipedia. So, so there's a challenge that I formulated at that time, which is how much can you do with only open source software?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2335.382,2727.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, so, so OpenOffice was there, right? It wasn't as compatible with Microsoft Office,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2729.222,2736.976"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e then as it is now. Of course, LibreOffice also was a fork from that. There were early content management systems. Joomla! and Drupal. Drupal, of course, is still around. Drupal has a huge community, has been a huge success. You know, it was actually Dries Voithoudt's PhD dissertation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2737.34,2762.375"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2763.083,2765.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, so, but what we, so those are kind of the grassroots of a lot of open source, and people were putting open source on a shared repository, SourceForge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2765.52,2779.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So SourceForge was the GitHub of its day. And again, SourceForge still exists, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2781.482,2789.896"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e obviously has been dwarfed by the adoption and widespread use of GitHub. So, you know, not everything dies, it just kind of hangs around for a while. Yeah, right, right. Well, then, when did you, when did you know that you wanted to play a more","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2790.741,2812.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e pivotal role in influencing the, in stewarding open source? You were, you joined the OSI at some point, right? So that was a little later. Because OSI didn't have affiliate members,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2812.34,2825.695"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e and they didn't have individual members for a long time. But in 2005, my first year at Carnegie Mellon, I organized a conference on open source software in the Bay Area, and we got 100 or so people, and I managed to get some, you know, luminaries in, in open source, Denise Cooper was one of our speakers, for example, and she's certainly very well known for her long term contributions in open source. And so, you know, that was the thing that told me that this was what's happening now, that this movement toward open source was happening, it was happening slowly. Because at that time, and maybe for the next four or five years after that, there were camps, that there were people who believed in open source, and they didn't want to send any money to Redmond, Washington, or to Redwood Shores, California, or other places that were homes to major proprietary software businesses. And then, of course, you had the other side, which are the large companies that said, you know, they believed what Microsoft said, or they got everything that they needed from proprietary software, and had no use for open source. And the executives in some of those companies would say, we don't use open source. And my answer to them was, you want to bet? Yeah. Yep. And you know, at that time, you had the emergence of companies like Black Duck, which were out there analyzing source code and looking for open source software in those larger systems. And surprise, surprise, there was a lot of it out there. And, of course, Black Duck has evolved and been acquired, and they're now part of Synopsys. I don't know if I knew that. Okay. So there was this division. And it wasn't until considerably later, maybe after the 2008 Great Recession, that some of these companies said, you know, we have all this work to do, and our budgets have all been cut. Let's go take a look at this open source stuff, which is free. And so that's what they did. And so we saw, we began to see gradual adoption of open source in companies. And this is that place where what I was doing, evaluation and adoption of open source, really became a central activity, all these. It took a long time. And in fact, it's still in process. But to get the analysts, the industry analysts, like the partners of the world, to when they do their evaluation, their four quadrants. The other quadrant, yeah. So how do you get open source software products into the upper quadrant?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2825.82,3038.874"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Because otherwise, they'd be in the lower left, right? They don't have the structural","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3041.546,3044.574"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e organization of the company, they don't have the revenue, they don't have the roadmap, they they don't have the support. And so what turns out, as we can say, looking backward, is that some of the most successful open source companies became that way by creating companies that used that software. So Drupal, for example, the founders of Drupal set up a company called Acquia. And Acquia provides a very good level of hosting and commercial support for Drupal. You have the same thing with Cassandra and Hadoop, where there are companies that provide that support. But now to come back to your question about open source and the OSI. So the OSI, of course, was founded in 1998. And they had a board of directors. And the board of directors, of course, was started by Bruce Perens and by Eric Raymond. And what's his name from Red Hat? Michael Tiemann. Yes, thank you. So Michael Tiemann, and then other people were appointed. And it was kind of a closed system. And in 2010, when they appointed new members, invited to join and accepted. And Simon Phipps also came out at the same time as I did. And Simon had been at Sun Microsystems. But he has, these days, a very successful open source consulting practice and does some work for European governments and for the UK government. So a couple of things during our tenure. So I was on the board for two terms, you know, I was termed out, right? That was the legal maximum. But a few things happened. First of all, Simon really drove the idea of an affiliate program, so that many of the other groups that were doing open source software, and many of the foundations doing open source software became affiliates of the OSI. So that, and that had the, you know, that led to improved communication, and it led to people being able to represent open source more as a group than as each individual foundation. So getting and eventually, the affiliates, some of them contributed money and money and so one of the other good things that happened is that we were able to hire in the OSI, a general manager. And that was useful, because now you had somebody whose job it was, primary job was to represent the OSI. Whereas the rest of us were, you know, earning a living doing other things. And another thing that happened during that era was the creation of individual memberships. Okay. In the OSI. Oh, right, where an organization could. Right. As you know, the Free Software Foundation has individual members and the Linux Foundation has individual members, and other groups as well. The OSI did not until about 2014, maybe, not that long ago. And there was not much of a marketing program. So they, you know, you'd have a conference like the O'Reilly conference, where the OSI would have a booth and, and we tell people, you know, please, please join. We didn't have all that much to give them in return. The OSI didn't run its own conferences, they didn't teach its own courses. And so the OSI's main mission then and now has been over license approval.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3044.66,3342.415"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, right. Yeah. And so, and I think that's something that not only has the OSI done,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3343.221,3351.596"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e done well, but that the, the open source community as a whole, looks to the OSI for its leadership and voice on that. Absolutely. So if I understand the timeline,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3351.98,3367.055"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e correctly, you know, when you started, you know, building that program around studying open source adoption, that was prior to what you kind of signaled as sort of the more popular mainstream interest in open source, like, it was prior to the Great Recession, which you benchmark as kind of a, that just tells me it's sort of, you were on, you were onto something, right, that you had an inkling. And I'm wondering what, what was it about open source and about the idea of open source? What did you see at the time that sparked your passion and curiosity to pursue, build that program and pursue that? It, you know, it just, it tells me you had, you had insight into something, right? So there are a couple of things. First of all,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3367.56,3414.013"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e in 2005, there was an effort started called the Business Readiness Rating. And, and it was started by SpikeSource, which was a startup. And the CEO of SpikeSource was Kim Polese, who was the first product manager for Java at Sun. They, all these pieces eventually come back together. Yeah, Yeah, right, right, right, right, right. And, and then the, there was funding from Intel, a guy named Pete Kronowit, who has since left computing to be a musician. And, and O'Reilly, Nat forget his last name. Anyway, Nat was the representative from O'Reilly, so that, and then me. So the, the four groups created this Business Readiness Rating. And as you can imagine, this is right up my alley of evaluation and adoption. What makes a piece of open source software ready to be used in a business environment, whether that's commercial distribution of the software, or inclusion of that software in a product that they ship, or whether it's internal use. So what we did was we came out with a set of evaluation criteria. Initially, there were a dozen of them. And that was a way that you could look at a piece of open source software and score it on these criteria, documentation, the quality of the code, the existence of some kind of a process for reviewing bugs. All these kinds of things could be scored on a zero to five scale, and you could add up all the numbers and weight them. But it turned out, when you think about it, that you didn't have to do a lot of work to know which ones were really ready for commercial use, because the ones that were the most ready were the ones that already provided the same kind of customer support and updates and roadmaps that companies and businesses expected from commercial software. So if you made your open source software business look like a commercial software business, only here's the code too, you had a much higher business readiness rating score than if it was two graduate students who were releasing new versions of the software whenever it pleased them. Coming in little mailers and shipping them out of their apartment or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3414.06,3590.453"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e something, yeah. Exactly. So the business readiness rating was a good idea, but we didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3590.5,3600.616"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e build automated tools to let you say, here's this piece of software, go evaluate it for, you can only evaluate part of it because other things, you had to go, for example, look on Amazon and say, well, how many books are written about this particular piece of software? Oh, so what happened, first of all, is that the guy who was the main spike source contributor is Murugan Pal, and he got sick and he's no longer with us. He died maybe a decade ago. And Nat from O'Reilly went home to New Zealand, and Pete Cronenweth from Intel had other things he wanted to do. So it kind of disintegrated, and it actually stayed moribund, if you will, for a number of years. And then maybe if you will, for a number of years. And then maybe around 2012 or 13, I said, well, this is a good idea, so let's bring it back to life and let's fix some of the things that we need to do. So first of all, we gave the new project a name, and the name is OSS Pal. And Pal is obviously a double entendre, one as an acknowledgement to Murugan Pal and the other, that it's your pal. Yeah, yep, yep. It's your open source software. So I love the name. And the other thing we did in the OSS Pal project, it was up for many years on on OSSPal.org, but no longer is maintained, it's not there. So instead, if you go out and do a search for, let's say, content management systems, or even management systems, or even open source content management systems, you're going to get some huge number of hits. So if I'm some huge number of hits. So if I'm in, if I'm some engineer in some company, and I say, well, I want to go try one of these open one of these open source content management systems, and you go to your favorite search engine, and you type you go to your favorite search engine, and you type you go to your favorite search engine, and you type you go to your favorite search engine, and you type in open source content management systems, you know, this wave. Yep. Like 1400 of them. I can only imagine. Yep. Yeah. And so we said, yeah, that's never going to work. So what we decided to do with OSSPal, and I think it's it's really a sound idea. And if I had the resources, we bring it all back to life. As we curated, we said, look, you know, what we know from our previous experiences, there's certain things that you need to have in a project for it to be suitable for business use. So we could go in there and look at Drupal, for example, and say, ah, okay, well, there's a company that supports it, there's an ecosystem around it, there's a big community. It's been around for a while, there's a roadmap, there are new releases, all these things that make it attractive to people who would be evaluating software. So, you know, that makes the bar. So what we would do was to find candidates that people would want to look at. So rather than our saying to you, use this content management system, we use this database management system, we would say, here are three or five candidates that we think you should look at. And then they could put weights for the different criteria. Some of those criteria were based on the domain in which the software works. So you ask different things in evaluating a database management system than you do in evaluating a content management system. Does this take you back at all to that dissertation project about, you know? Not really, no. No, but here are these criteria that you're going to use. And so we would pick several of them. And we worked with IDC, the analyst company. And IDC, it turns out, every year publishes a software taxonomy. And their software taxonomy breaks all of software into categories. And there are about 80 categories that they identify. Was it a perfect fit for open source? Not entirely, because a lot of the open source projects that were most widely used were developer tools and infrastructure, much less the application side. But it was a good starting point. And we tried adding some additional application domains so we could divide up development tools, for example. So we went ahead with that. And the idea was, okay, we're going to do the curation. Now what we want is we get these evaluations partly on the basis of the domain, and partly in general, right? How much documentation is there? Is there the kind of generic things that you might ask about any piece of software? So the idea then was that people would write reviews. Okay, so I've used Mozilla Firefox, okay? And here's how I would evaluate it. The same way you would evaluate a movie or a restaurant or much of anything else, give it, you know, a bunch of check marks or scores, 05 in these different categories, and then free text. And, you know, we had the same issue that all online surveys have, which is that, how do you know that the person who's writing the review is being accurate about it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not much you can do about that, other than asking people to register and get their email address and verify it. But we really didn't have the resources to do the kind of awareness generation, not to say marketing, that it would take to bring a lot of people in to write these reviews. So we concluded that it was a great idea, and that if we were doing it as a commercial venture and could raise venture capital to build it, it would be valuable. What's happened in the meantime is, of course, the STARS mechanism that exists on GitHub. There's always been, or at least there's been for a long time, OpenHub, which lets you look at the source code, and the contributions, and the dates, and the, let's say, the aliveness of a particular project. So there's some other things that are out there that play a valuable role in terms of helping people evaluate open source software. And, of course, more and more with commercial open source, you have salespeople. And you have conferences like the Open Source Summit that the Linux Foundation puts on several times a year around the world, and those have exhibit booths. And so that's an opportunity for these commercial businesses to tell the world about their products. Well, the final question I wanted to ask you was about what you see as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3600.62,4105.675"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e the biggest challenges for open source as an idea, or for open source as a movement, or even as a set of practices in the future. Now and in the future, what you see is the largest potential impediments to its proliferation or growth. And I wonder if that's, is that one of them, curation, you see as a challenge or an issue?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4107.962,4129.453"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there are a lot of issues, of course. And, you know, answering this would depend on how much time we have. But the first part of it is that proprietary software isn't going away. Okay, that, you know, there are these pipe dreams that some people have had about, you know, the world going to open source. And, you know, I simply don't see Oracle giving away their source code, or other companies with such a major investment. Now, Microsoft did a bit of that when they did Visual Studio Code, above what was in Visual Studio Pro, I think, and made that freely available. And there's some other examples of it. But I think open source and proprietary software are going to to coexist. And I think that over time, as more people come into the industry, they're going to do their evaluations based on functionality of the product, rather than, oh, it's open, or it's closed, or here's how much it costs. I mean, that those become factors in doing evaluation. Another thing is that open source has not been very strong, for example, in mobile. So when you start to look at all the applications that have been developed for mobile devices, you you know, you put the F Droid library, which is the Android mobile app, you put that up against Google's Play Store. And it's a joke. Yeah, right. Yeah. And, and Apple, in their store, you know, makes it very difficult to get open source software in there. So there's not, there's not much of it there. So there are some definite challenges to that. And, you know, there's still this educational process of how do you make money at open source. And now I teach open source software, I've taught it, you know, 17 times or something at Carnegie Mellon. And it's evolved over the years, of course, has brought guests in to share their experience and knowledge. But you know, there's still people who don't believe, yeah, why would you write software for free? Yeah. And, and my answer to them is, well, why would you go volunteer your time at the hospital to help six people, sick people? Why would you go to a place where there's been a natural disaster and do your best to help out? These are, you know, things that people do, because it gives them personal fulfillment. So, so I think that there are good answers to the question of why do people do this for free?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4130.082,4318.731"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that is that is the future of open source beholden to people's altruism? Like, is, is the limit of open source, the limit of people's altruism, do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4320.945,4329.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know. You know, it's, it's, you know, if I were able to predict the future that well, then I would be, I would be very wealthy. And I would be, I would be like rich, Richard Branson on my own island. We probably wouldn't have been working for so many failed startups, I guess, if you could. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4331.242,4349.92"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, startups fail. I, you know, I taught startup creation kinds of things","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4349.92,4358.316"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e at Carnegie Mellon. And every now and then one of the companies goes beyond the campus and starts their own business. But it's, there are a lot of barriers to success. And it's not until you're out there doing it. I work these days with Berkeley's accelerator called Skydeck. And they, they had like 1000 applicants for 18 places, or, you know, some key, wildly selective thing. And then, and then we meet these companies. And, you know, a few of them make it, right? Because everything falls into place at the right time. But most of them, most of them struggle. And that's true of startups. And it's been true as long as the field has existed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4359.002,4410.987"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been a wonderful way to spend an afternoon. And I really appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Thanks for sharing your memories. And, and, you know, this, this, as we construct this great kind of oral history of open source. It's just been wonderful. And I'm very grateful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4411.642,4432.926"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43889/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it's been it's been my pleasure. And it forced me to recollect some of these things and to dig some of these names out of the far reaches of my memory. It's definitely good to have it down there. And I'll want to see the the final version of it and, and perhaps post on my LinkedIn. Great. Where, where this is all gone. So, so that's great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4433.962,4461.448"}]},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["TheirStory Transcript (Captions with Speakers) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Bryan Behrenshausen interviewing\nTony Wasserman for the FOSSDA","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=0.18,5.258"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=5.753,6.214"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Tony, thanks so much for doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=6.274,7.665"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=7.685,7.846"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Really appreciate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=7.906,8.63"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=10.262,10.803"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I want to start just to talk 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Madison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=101.98,102.501"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And my original thought was that I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=103.363,105.569"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e would go for a master's degree,\nbut they gave me money and made 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=119.471,119.852"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I want to talk about that a little","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=119.872,121.26"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e bit then 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user","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=180.872,186.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e experiences and human computer\ninteraction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=186.128,188.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And And I did a little bit more\nwork on that over the 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you've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=202.987,207.46"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e written it for years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=207.48,208.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And even if it's your own 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modularization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=216.664,220.734"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I went back and I looked at this\n50-plus-year-old code not too long","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=221.822,226.931"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e ago, and it was written in 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language.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=232.949,233.25"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think I've ever even seen","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=233.27,234.333"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=234.353,234.393"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e ALGOL is wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=235.161,236.244"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, it was perfect for these\nstack architectures 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and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=259.85,262.783"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the seven dwarfs, RCA and General\nElectric and Honeywell and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=263.704,267.853"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Burroughs and UNIVAC and Control\nData.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=267.913,271.585"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e That's six.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=271.745,272.407"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e That's not bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=272.467,273.208"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e There's a seventh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=273.649,274.331"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, scientific data 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dwarfs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=278.304,279.467"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And IBM had like 70% market share.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=280.329,281.751"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But that was where I did my 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=297.361,297.602"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So I want to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=298.263,298.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e That's 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all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=381.011,381.172"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e You just got it made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=381.212,382.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e If you're at that 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Cal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=417.007,420.973"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It wasn't what I was going to do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=421.954,422.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e with my 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at\nmathematics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=426.204,428.669"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess that's true still.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=429.932,432.22"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I assume 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general,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=448.004,451.354"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e because your first exposure to\nthem was probably at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=452.223,454.651"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e university 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=472.523,473.766"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e election.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=473.826,474.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And that was kind of my 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began","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=495.254,501.707"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e using them for a lot of their\nroutine things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=502.529,506.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course, computers were used in\nthe defense and military areas,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=506.416,512.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e but that was not an area that I\nknew anything about, nor did I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=513.052,516.342"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e have any interest in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=516.381,521.129"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So I've done a PhD as well, and in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=521.789,525.776"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e my field in communication studies,\nthe dissertation involves","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=525.816,528.827"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e essentially like the production of\na large monograph, essentially","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=528.907,532.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e like a book-length 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I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=535.3,538.751"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e sure, a significant amount of\nwriting, but also building a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=538.791,543.208"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=543.248,543.629"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=543.669,544.09"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=544.792,545.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, you know, my dissertation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=545.273,547.242"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e runs 200 some odd pages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=547.242,549.007"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I think I have a digital copy of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=549.027,551.172"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e it on this machine somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=551.232,552.66"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But because it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=555.825,559.391"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e systems-oriented, you had to build\nsomething and demonstrate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=559.511,564.502"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So the code was somewhere above\n10,000 lines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=564.622,569.511"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't remember the exact count,\nbut it was a fair amount of code.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=569.531,573.123"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And what specific dissertation or\nwhat specific problem was your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=573.824,577.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e dissertation trying to figure out?\nWhat were you tackling?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=577.861,581.811"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e The title of the dissertation was\nAchievement of Skill and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=581.971,584.884"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Generality in an Artificial\nIntelligence Program, which is a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=584.965,589.165"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e problem that exists to this day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=589.225,590.812"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e What do they call Alexa add-ons,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=594.763,597.229"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e right?\nThey call them skills.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=597.309,598.371"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e You download skills for your\nAlexa, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=598.672,600.661"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e We don't have any listening\ndevices in my house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=602.225,604.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=606.434,606.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Except for this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=607.844,608.507"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that strikes me\nas particularly interesting about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=615.261,619.493"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the OpenAI and the GPT-4 and BARD\ntechnologies is that they do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=619.573,625.43"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e cover, they have one skill that\nthey're really, really good at,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=625.55,630.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e which is information retrieval and\ncompression and restatement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=630.145,636.488"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But it works across a wide variety\nof domains.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=637.85,640.656"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Because the other day, for\nexample, I asked BARD to help me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=642.723,647.931"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e plan a couple of days of\nsightseeing on an upcoming trip.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=648.292,651.962"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it gave me a very nice list of\nsuggestions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=652.444,655.27"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e At one o'clock in the afternoon,\ndo this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=655.291,657.862"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e At three o'clock in the afternoon,\ndo that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=657.882,660.548"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Go have tapas at this place at\nthis time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=660.909,663.981"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It was pretty impressive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=664.623,666.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e What was your dissertation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=667.81,669.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e specifically?\nWhat did your program do with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=669.914,673.907"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e regard to AI?\nIt was the world's best bridge","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=673.947,677.054"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e bidding program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=677.094,677.755"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=677.76,680.184"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Because at the time, there was, of\ncourse, checkers, which was very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=682.047,687.375"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e early and not not such a huge\nproblem to build a skillful","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=687.476,694.752"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=694.792,695.213"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But people were starting to work","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=695.694,696.656"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e on chess, of course, at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=696.736,698.424"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And chess is a combinatorially","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=698.584,701.131"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e difficult problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=701.192,702.154"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it turns out that bridge the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=703.683,705.006"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e same way, the number of hands that\ncan be dealt and the division of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=705.046,709.461"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e them among multiple players, turns\nout that it's hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=709.541,716.091"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the technology that I used,\nthere were two or three","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=716.672,721.383"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e technologies, but what I used was\nrule-based.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=721.424,724.59"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So that you had to, there there\nare ways, standard ways to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=725.853,729.866"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e evaluate the cards in your hand\nand to interpret the bids that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=729.926,736.522"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e your partner makes to help you\ncome up with a final bid or maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=736.542,744.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e seat to the opposition, the\ncontract that's to be made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=744.615,749.487"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, later on, after I had left\nthe university, I did, in fact,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=749.507,755.804"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e work with one other person and we\nbuilt the play of the hand part","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=757.327,761.335"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e and it played quite well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=761.435,763.162"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the fascinating thing about it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=764.043,766.788"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e is that we found somebody who\nwanted to manufacture a box,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=767.268,772.74"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e right?\nSo there's an item called the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=773.462,779.611"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Goran Bridge Master.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=779.651,780.993"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And you can find them, they're","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=782.715,784.1"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e very scarce, but on bidding sites,\nyou can find them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=784.12,787.95"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And I have one that's kind of\nunopened, untouched.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=788.712,791.241"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But the asking price was $350,\nwhich is, you know, it limited the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=791.842,794.867"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e appeal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=794.907,795.048"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that was 1970s dollars, $350,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=801.381,802.704"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e 1970s dollars, not the cost of the\none from the internet that you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=802.704,807.78"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e bought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=807.82,808.021"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=808.843,809.124"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah, gotcha.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=809.946,810.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that limits your audience a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=810.708,812.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=812.853,813.154"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=813.214,813.334"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, a little bit prohibitive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=813.56,815.424"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, and of course, they didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=815.665,818.992"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e spend as much money as they might\nhave on marketing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=819.012,821.403"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So who knows?\nThere was no social media to 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different","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=828.145,830.349"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e outcome in a modern era with a\ndifferent price point and a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=830.449,834.836"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e different marketing message, but\nthat's something we'll never know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=834.9,838.727"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=839.048,839.83"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So when then did you 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company","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=862.332,870.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e would talk about its future plans,\nand people brought software to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=870.328,875.481"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e share.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=875.521,875.802"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the mentality at the time was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=877.245,879.59"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e very, very 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anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=882.761,885.828"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, here's my routine to\nperform this calculation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=886.229,890.983"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Here's this one to compute some\ntrajectory, you know, share and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=891.023,896.655"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e share alike.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=896.68,897.221"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so that was something I 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I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=932.365,937.594"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e think it was a 45 originally, that\nran at least part of the day it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=937.614,945.168"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e ran UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=945.229,945.809"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then very quickly, they had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=946.711,948.774"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e machines that ran UNIX all the\ntime.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=950.5,952.584"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And Berkeley received a grant from\nthe United States Department of of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=953.185,958.396"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Defense that involved enhancing\nAT\u0026T UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=958.44,965.25"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So Berkeley got the source code to\nAT\u0026T UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=966.352,969.396"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And they made a bunch of changes,\nvirtual memory being the one 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a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=978.724,979.907"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e digital equipment corporation, VAX\n11780, and distributed it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=979.967,987.447"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the license from AT\u0026T was a\ncommercial 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different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=999.914,1003.425"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so they created the BSD\nlicense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1004.367,1009.056"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Nobody used the term open source\nsoftware at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1010.142,1013.189"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It was the BSD license.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1013.65,1015.695"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so anybody could obtain 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one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1028.14,1028.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, there's a history","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1030.144,1032.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e here of different hardware\nvendors, either supporting 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I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1111.241,1117.008"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e was working on a project in, at UC\nSan Francisco, project was called","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1117.709,1124.142"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e user software 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Relational","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1409.294,1414.23"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Technology initially.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1414.271,1415.474"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it was just down the road from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1415.48,1418.205"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e campus in Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1418.265,1419.348"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But they were quite 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don't\nknow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1428.832,1431.583"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And what was the name of your\ncompany again?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1431.925,1433.351"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Interactive Development\nEnvironments, IDE.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1434.302,1436.648"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the product was called\nSoftware Through Pictures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1437.25,1439.275"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1440.366,1440.749"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So we were one of the first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1441.341,1442.965"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e products to include open source\nsoftware.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1443.306,1447.095"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I think we were second.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1449.265,1450.408"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I think Sun Microsystems was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1450.889,1452.353"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e first.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1452.453,1452.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1453.261,1453.503"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Sun basically took Berkeley Unix,\nthey hired Bill Joy and other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1454.201,1459.512"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e people from Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1459.553,1460.895"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And they created Sun OS, which was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1462.241,1466.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e a closed operating system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1466.327,1467.629"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, just as our product","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1469.292,1473.2"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e was closed at that point, so was\ntheirs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1473.24,1475.564"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so they were 1982.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1476.786,1478.749"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And we didn't start IDE until","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1478.749,1480.546"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e 1983.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1480.546,1480.899"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And we didn't release anything to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1483.46,1487.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e paying users until 1984.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1488.147,1489.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e At the very end of 1984, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1489.088,1495.601"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e actually turned out we did our\nlaunch at a Sun user group meeting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1496.163,1499.39"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e on election day in 1984.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1500.231,1501.599"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1502.921,1503.743"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1503.943,1504.845"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So I'm trying to determine how I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1505.285,1509.312"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e want to ask this follow up\nquestion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1509.332,1510.775"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess it's twofold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1510.815,1512.201"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e One, did you ever, did you always","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1512.502,1514.466"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e intend to work in the private\nsector like that, let alone start","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1514.526,1519.502"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e a company?\nAnd second, did you ever 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field,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1525.505,1528.614"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e the software was the trivial part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1528.72,1530.485"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e It was the hardware that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1530.605,1531.628"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e expensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1531.689,1532.17"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, here you are, what a decade","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1532.23,1534.322"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e later, you're building a business\non the buying and selling of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1534.362,1537.73"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1537.991,1538.412"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So did you intend to do you ever?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1539.314,1542.827"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you foresee that path for\nyourself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1543.168,1544.872"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Was that desirable?\nOr did did it just kind of play","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1545.293,1547.182"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e out that way?\nYeah, I think that it's 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1970s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1720.13,1722.013"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And that, you know, that opened up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1722.073,1728.486"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e a possibility.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1728.546,1729.307"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think that my switching from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1729.588,1734.595"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e academia to to industry was was\ndriven by several 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was\ninfluential.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1747.267,1753.858"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then my early exposure to Sun\nMicrosystems, because the among","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1753.958,1761.693"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the first machines that were\navailable were available were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1761.733,1764.521"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e given to Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1764.982,1765.843"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so my students and I had an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1767.826,1770.51"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e opportunity very early on to build\nthis graphical software that took","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1770.911,1777.264"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e advantage of the large bitmap\nbitmap display, which was kind 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engineering","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1788.791,1791.821"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e by a couple of years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1791.861,1792.683"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But, you know, you sort of you 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support\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1800.125,1801.89"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e We have these ideas about tools\nfor doing software design.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1803.133,1806.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, there are a lot of\nother people starting companies","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1806.426,1810.242"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e these days, and we're at least as\nsmart as they are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1810.303,1813.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So we 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was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1818.727,1824.315"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e one of the first hundred dot coms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1824.395,1826.343"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, you think today of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1827.205,1828.889"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the millions and millions and\nmillions, we were number 78.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1828.929,1831.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you know that number?\nBecause there's a website called","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1834.768,1837.887"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e first hundred dot coms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1837.947,1839.152"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And how do they do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1839.881,1840.904"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Like they rank them or they note\nthem based on when you like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1840.924,1843.832"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e incorporated like your\nincorporation date or the or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1843.892,1847.588"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e registered you registered the\ndomain name or what's the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1847.668,1849.994"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it was the domain\nregistration that triggered it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1850.44,1852.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So so a company like Symbolics,\nwhich is a LISP machine, an AI","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1853.007,1859.169"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e oriented machine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1859.95,1860.732"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I think they were number one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1860.792,1861.895"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, who's heard of\nSymbolics these days?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1862.923,1866.574"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1867.104,1867.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So so it's a question of being in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1868.441,1871.668"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the right place in the right time\nand putting one and one together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1871.748,1875.015"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say it was fairly\nopportunistic because I gave up a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1875.04,1878.449"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e tenured faculty position.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1878.529,1879.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that's not easy to 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1976.445,1976.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/651","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And physically move it, I would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1976.926,1978.391"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/652","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e 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Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1982.134,1982.171"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/659","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1982.171,1982.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/660","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1982.191,1982.201"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/661","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, it was a big display.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1982.211,1984.486"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/662","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. 17 inch 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2012.937,2012.947"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/675","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you were doing open source\nsoftware before there was open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2013.088,2016.357"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/676","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e source software, as open source\nsoftware, as we 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tools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2038.522,2051.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/687","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And you had Richard, who was very\nadamant about the problem that he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2051.661,2054.588"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/688","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e was encountering with a Canon\nlaser printer, because he had 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1980s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2069.271,2069.291"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/693","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so this notion of free","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2071.3,2072.562"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/694","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e software was out 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wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2076.449,2084.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/697","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e really the whole notion wasn't\npitched at companies and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2084.806,2092.563"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/698","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e suggesting that they use 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used.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2113.365,2124.367"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/703","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So I would say it was right about\nthe turn of the millennium when,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2124.427,2127.326"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/704","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e when I became more of the\nmillennium when, when I 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successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2150.867,2151.849"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/711","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But I learned Java Enterprise","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2158.785,2163.093"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/712","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Edition at that 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next","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2166.56,2167.036"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/715","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e job, which was with a great small\ncompany called Bluestone Software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2167.036,2168.108"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/716","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e They were based, they were based\nin South Jersey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2168.489,2172.784"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/717","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, my gosh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2172.844,2173.225"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/718","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So you don't associate New 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successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2375.833,2378.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/775","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But you know, 90% of them failed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2379.063,2382.252"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/776","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2388.501,2389.702"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/781","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it was two guys who had, I\nthink, a promising idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2390.383,2396.77"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/782","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And they built the company, they\nbuilt the product, and the 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you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2461.41,2465.22"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/799","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e know, we're doing, we're getting\nthis academic program in software","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2465.26,2469.973"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/800","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e engineering started out here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2469.993,2471.562"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/801","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Why don't you come around and take","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2471.582,2473.267"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/802","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e a look.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2473.307,2473.648"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/803","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e One thing led to another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2475.072,2475.994"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/804","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And in 2005, I joined the 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I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2495.022,2498.147"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/809","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e picked open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2498.568,2499.489"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/810","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2500.25,2500.491"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/811","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And not building open source code\nso much as evaluation and adoption","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2500.531,2510.733"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/812","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e and use of open 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Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2513.141,2513.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/815","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, you know, I went off and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2514.464,2518.311"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/816","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e started talking to people at 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with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2528.874,2534.147"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/819","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Microsoft Office Suite.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2534.628,2535.971"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/820","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So you really didn't do 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Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2764.91,2765.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/879","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, so, but what we, so those are\nkind of the grassroots of a lot of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2765.52,2772.873"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/880","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e open source, and people were\nputting open source on a 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we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2919.004,2921.87"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/917","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e don't use open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2922.752,2923.775"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/918","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And my answer to them was, 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Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2931.944,2932.264"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/921","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And you know, at that time, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2933.226,2935.631"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/922","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e had the emergence of companies\nlike Black Duck, which were 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systems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2946.875,2950.067"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/925","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And surprise, surprise, there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2950.648,2952.212"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/926","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e a lot of it out there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2952.252,2953.134"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/927","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, of course, Black Duck has","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2954.944,2956.688"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/928","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e evolved and been acquired, and\nthey're now part of Synopsys.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2956.748,2959.695"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/929","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know if I knew that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2960.721,2967.389"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/930","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2968.79,2969.291"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/931","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So there was this division.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2969.311,2971.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/932","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it wasn't until considerably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2971.994,2974.337"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/933","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e later, maybe after the 2008 Great\nRecession, that some of these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2974.4,2982.573"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/934","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e companies said, you know, we have\nall this work to do, and our","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2982.673,2986.685"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/935","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e budgets have all been cut.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2986.745,2988.129"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/936","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's go take a look at this open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2988.73,2990.42"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/937","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e source stuff, which is free.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2990.48,2993.826"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/938","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so that's what they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2994.667,2996.611"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/939","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so we saw, we began to see\ngradual adoption of open source in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2997.633,3003.267"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/940","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e companies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3003.347,3003.808"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/941","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And this is that place where what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3003.868,3007.315"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/942","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I was doing, evaluation and\nadoption of open source, really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3007.375,3010.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/943","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e became a central activity, all\nthese.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3010.987,3014.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/944","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It took a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3016.423,3017.545"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/945","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And in fact, it's still in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3017.626,3020.03"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/946","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3020.09,3020.691"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/947","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But to get the analysts, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3021.293,3023.14"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/948","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e industry analysts, like the\npartners of the world, to when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3023.18,3028.411"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/949","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e they do their evaluation, their\nfour quadrants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3028.451,3032.066"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/950","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e The other quadrant, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3032.467,3033.271"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/951","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So how do you get open source","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3034.022,3036.268"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/952","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e software products into the upper\nquadrant?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3036.328,3038.874"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/953","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Because otherwise, they'd be in\nthe lower left, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3041.546,3043.451"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/954","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e They don't have the structural\norganization of the company, they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3043.491,3046.044"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/955","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e don't have the revenue, they don't\nhave the roadmap, they they don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3046.065,3048.96"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/956","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e have the support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3048.98,3049.842"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/957","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so what turns out, as we can","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3051.786,3054.131"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/958","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e say, looking backward, is that\nsome of the most successful 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software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3064.903,3065.784"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/961","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So Drupal, for example, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3066.666,3070.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/962","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e founders of Drupal set up a\ncompany called Acquia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3070.853,3073.221"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/963","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And Acquia provides a very good\nlevel of hosting and commercial","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3074.663,3079.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/964","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e support for Drupal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3079.313,3084.864"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/965","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e You have the same thing with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3085.365,3086.487"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/966","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Cassandra and Hadoop, where there\nare companies that provide that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3086.688,3091.382"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/967","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3091.422,3091.863"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/968","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But now to come back to your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3092.385,3093.488"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/969","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e question about open source and the\nOSI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3093.529,3097.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/970","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So the OSI, of course, was founded\nin 1998.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3098.986,3102.471"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/971","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And they had a board of directors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3102.471,3105.756"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/972","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the board of directors, 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would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3311.99,3317.186"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1025","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e have a booth and, and we tell\npeople, you know, please, please","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3317.206,3322.235"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1026","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e join.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3322.295,3322.596"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1027","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e We didn't have all that much to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3324.606,3325.83"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1028","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e give them in return.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3325.93,3326.953"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1029","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e The OSI didn't run its own","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3330.404,3332.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1030","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e conferences, they didn't teach its\nown courses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3332.108,3335.395"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1031","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so the OSI's main mission then\nand now has been over license","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3336.541,3342.034"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1032","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e 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Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3344.643,3344.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1035","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, and I think that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3345.184,3348.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1036","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e something that not only has the\nOSI done, done well, but that the,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3348.951,3354.385"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1037","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the open source community as a\nwhole, looks to the OSI for its","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3354.426,3358.64"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1038","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e leadership and voice on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3359.081,3362.607"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1039","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3363.248,3363.769"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1040","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So if I understand the timeline,\ncorrectly, you know, when you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3364.43,3368.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1041","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e started, you know, building that\nprogram around studying open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3369.345,3372.681"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1042","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e source adoption, that was prior to\nwhat you kind of signaled as sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3372.721,3378.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1043","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e of the more popular mainstream\ninterest in open source, like, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3378.573,3382.949"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1044","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e was prior to the Great Recession,\nwhich you benchmark as kind of a,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3383.671,3386.443"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1045","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e that just tells me it's sort of,\nyou were on, you were onto","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3387.947,3391.115"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1046","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e something, right, that you had an\ninkling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3391.16,3393.206"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1047","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And I'm wondering what, what was\nit about open source and about the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3393.226,3396.781"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1048","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e idea of open source?\nWhat did you see at the time that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3396.841,3401.271"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1049","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e sparked your passion and curiosity\nto pursue, build that program and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3401.913,3406.408"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1050","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e pursue that?\nIt, you know, it just, it tells 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things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3412.107,3413.171"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1053","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e First of all, in 2005, there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3413.532,3416.905"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1054","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e an effort started called the\nBusiness Readiness Rating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3416.945,3419.77"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1055","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and it was started by\nSpikeSource, which was a startup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3420.712,3427.027"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1056","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the CEO of SpikeSource was Kim\nPolese, who was the first product","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3427.848,3433.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1057","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e manager for Java at Sun. They, all\nthese pieces eventually come back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3433.161,3438.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1058","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3438.814,3439.215"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1059","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Yeah, right, right, right,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3439.215,3440.106"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1060","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3440.147,3440.589"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1061","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and then the, there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3441.221,3445.909"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1062","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e funding from Intel, a guy named\nPete Kronowit, who has since left","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3445.949,3452.504"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1063","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e computing to be a musician.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3452.544,3454.427"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1064","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and O'Reilly, Nat forget his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3455.95,3463.124"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1065","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e last name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3463.164,3463.564"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1066","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Anyway, Nat was the representative","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3464.927,3468.293"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1067","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e from O'Reilly, so that, and then\nme.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3468.393,3470.7"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1068","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So the, the four groups created\nthis Business Readiness Rating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3471.501,3478.093"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1069","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And as you can imagine, this is\nright up my alley of 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bugs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3525.201,3528.108"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1084","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e All these kinds of things could be\nscored on a zero to five scale,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3529.431,3532.462"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1085","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e and you could add up all the\nnumbers and weight 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their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3588.005,3590.011"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1098","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e apartment or something, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3590.032,3591.461"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1099","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3592.483,3592.984"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e So the business readiness rating\nwas a good idea, but we didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3593.425,3600.616"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e build automated tools to let you\nsay, here's this piece 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us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3631.655,3636.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e He died maybe a decade ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3636.427,3639.793"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And Nat from O'Reilly went home 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years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3658.891,3664.539"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then maybe if you will, for a\nnumber of years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3664.539,3664.649"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then maybe around 2012 or 13,\nI said, well, this is a good 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Pal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3683.6,3686.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And Pal is obviously a double\nentendre, one as an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3686.706,3691.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e acknowledgement to Murugan Pal and\nthe other, that it's your pal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3691.36,3695.93"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yep, yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3696.191,3697.234"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It's your open source 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3700.104,3703.912"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e OSS Pal project, it was up for\nmany years on on OSSPal.org, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3703.993,3710.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e no longer is maintained, it's not\nthere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3710.89,3713.856"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So instead, if you go out and do a\nsearch for, let's say, content","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3716.685,3723.237"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e management systems, or even\nmanagement systems, or even 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hits.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3733.108,3733.118"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So if I'm in, if I'm some engineer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3733.118,3735.072"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e in some company, and I say, well,\nI want to go try one of these 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you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3744.157,3744.277"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e type in open source content\nmanagement systems, you know, this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3744.277,3747.646"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e wave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3747.886,3748.489"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3748.97,3749.091"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Like 1400 of 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Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3756.669,3756.889"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3757.551,3757.811"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so we said, yeah, that's never\ngoing to 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life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3769.169,3770.313"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e As we curated, we said, look, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3771.0,3775.75"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e know, what we know from our\nprevious experiences, there's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3775.79,3778.84"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e certain things that you need to\nhave in a project for it to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3778.9,3783.451"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e suitable for business use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3783.612,3784.975"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So we could go in there and look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3785.661,3787.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e at Drupal, for example, and say,\nah, okay, well, there's a company","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3787.706,3792.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e that supports it, there's an\necosystem around it, there's a big","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3792.2,3795.848"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3795.908,3796.53"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It's been around for a while,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3797.993,3799.481"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e there's a roadmap, there are new\nreleases, all these things that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3799.561,3803.349"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e make it attractive to people who\nwould be evaluating software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3803.47,3809.707"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, that makes the bar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3810.288,3813.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So what we would do was to find","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3813.794,3816.523"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e candidates that people would want\nto look at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3817.445,3820.491"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So rather than our saying to you,\nuse this content management","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3820.852,3825.087"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e system, we use this database\nmanagement system, we would say,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3825.127,3828.743"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e here are three or five candidates\nthat we think you should look at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3828.763,3833.555"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then they could put weights\nfor the different criteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3836.003,3840.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Some of those criteria were based\non the domain in which the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3840.532,3845.004"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e software works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3845.024,3845.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So you ask different things in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3845.906,3848.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e evaluating a database management\nsystem than you do in evaluating a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3848.573,3851.948"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e content management system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3852.009,3853.153"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Does this take you back at all to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3853.16,3856.368"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e that dissertation project about,\nyou know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3856.408,3858.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Not really, no. No, but here are\nthese criteria that you're going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3859.281,3865.971"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e to use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3865.991,3866.432"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so we would pick several of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3866.752,3868.215"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3868.255,3868.355"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And we worked with IDC, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3868.9,3872.846"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e analyst company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3873.006,3873.787"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And IDC, it turns out, every year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3875.29,3879.076"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e publishes a software taxonomy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3879.156,3881.102"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And their software taxonomy breaks","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3881.944,3884.51"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e all of software into categories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3884.67,3886.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And there are about 80 categories","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3887.235,3888.862"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e that they identify.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3890.105,3891.687"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it a perfect fit for open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3894.873,3896.395"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e source?\nNot entirely, because a lot of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3896.496,3900.809"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e open source projects that were\nmost widely used were developer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3900.889,3904.302"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e tools and infrastructure, much\nless the application side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3904.382,3910.353"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But it was a good starting point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3910.874,3912.762"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And we tried adding some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3912.822,3915.428"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e additional application domains so\nwe could divide up development","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3915.468,3919.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e tools, for example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3919.982,3920.883"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So we went ahead with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3922.046,3923.468"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And the idea was, okay, we're\ngoing to do the curation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3923.769,3928.422"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Now what we want is we get these\nevaluations partly on the basis of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3928.502,3935.356"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the domain, and partly in general,\nright?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3935.42,3940.851"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e How much documentation is there?\nIs there the kind of generic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3940.911,3945.728"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e things that you might ask about\nany piece of software?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3945.748,3947.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So the idea then was that people\nwould write reviews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3949.462,3955.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, so I've used Mozilla\nFirefox, okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3955.67,3960.621"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And here's how I would evaluate\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3960.701,3963.347"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e The same way you would evaluate a\nmovie or a restaurant or much of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3963.648,3966.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e anything else, give it, you know,\na bunch of check marks or scores,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3967.001,3970.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e 05 in these different categories,\nand then free text.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3970.533,3975.107"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, we had the same\nissue that all online surveys","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3976.61,3983.123"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e have, which is that, how do you\nknow that the person who's writing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3983.183,3991.135"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the review is being accurate about\nit?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3991.155,3994.225"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3994.246,3996.591"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e There's not much you can do about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3996.611,3997.734"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e that, other than asking people to\nregister and get their email","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3997.754,4000.969"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e address and verify 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and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4050.133,4052.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e the, let's say, the aliveness of a\nparticular project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4053.185,4058.621"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So there's some other things that\nare out there that play a 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booths.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4086.048,4089.08"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And so that's an opportunity for\nthese commercial businesses to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4089.781,4097.635"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e tell the world about their\nproducts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4097.694,4099.081"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the final question I wanted\nto ask you was about what you see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4100.944,4105.613"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e as the biggest challenges for open\nsource as an idea, or for open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4105.634,4113.434"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e source as a movement, or even as a\nset of practices in the future.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4113.474,4118.509"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Now and in the future, what you\nsee is the largest 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as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4124.529,4128.229"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e a challenge or an issue?\nWell, there are a lot of issues,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4128.408,4131.425"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4131.484,4131.926"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, answering this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4132.267,4134.492"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e would depend on how much time we\nhave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4134.533,4136.161"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But the first part of it is that\nproprietary software isn't going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4138.865,4144.473"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4144.533,4144.774"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, that, you know, there are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4144.794,4147.943"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e these pipe dreams that some people\nhave had about, you know, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4148.023,4151.872"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e world going to open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4151.912,4153.281"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, I simply don't 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investment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4163.587,4164.85"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, Microsoft did a bit of that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4165.111,4166.474"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e when they did Visual Studio Code,\nabove what was in Visual 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it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4199.252,4204.125"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e costs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4204.165,4204.566"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, that those become 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up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4230.188,4234.876"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e against Google's Play Store.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4234.936,4236.362"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's a joke.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4236.722,4237.544"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4238.065,4238.505"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4238.586,4238.806"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and Apple, in their store,\nyou know, makes it very difficult","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4239.026,4247.729"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e to get open source software in\nthere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4248.009,4249.674"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So there's not, there's not much\nof it there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4250.782,4253.288"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So there are some definite\nchallenges to 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at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4267.652,4270.885"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Carnegie Mellon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4271.246,4271.908"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's evolved over the years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4271.969,4273.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e of course, has brought guests in\nto share their experience and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4273.313,4278.371"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e knowledge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4278.411,4278.792"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But you know, there's still people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4278.812,4284.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e who don't believe, yeah, why would\nyou write software for free?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4284.826,4289.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4289.861,4290.022"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and my answer to them is,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4290.142,4291.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e well, why would you go volunteer\nyour time at the hospital to help","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4291.987,4295.52"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e six people, sick people?\nWhy would you go to a place where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4295.581,4299.869"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e there's been a natural disaster\nand do your best to help out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4299.909,4304.624"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e These are, you know, things that\npeople do, because it gives them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4305.386,4308.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e personal fulfillment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4308.9,4309.962"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, so I think that there are 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people's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4320.945,4324.513"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e altruism?\nLike, is, is the limit of open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4324.613,4328.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e source, the limit of people's\naltruism, do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4328.068,4329.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4331.242,4331.823"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, it's, it's, you know, if","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4331.843,4335.831"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I were able to predict the future\nthat well, then I would be, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4335.912,4339.764"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e would be very 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own\nisland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4343.232,4345.346"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e We probably wouldn't have been\nworking for so many failed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4345.82,4348.368"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e startups, I guess, if you could.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4348.408,4349.853"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e You You know, startups fail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4349.853,4352.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e I, you know, I taught startup\ncreation kinds of things at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4352.765,4359.102"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Carnegie Mellon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4359.162,4359.964"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And every now and then one of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4360.025,4361.95"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e companies goes beyond the campus\nand starts their own business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4362.01,4366.807"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But it's, there are a lot of\nbarriers to success.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4367.208,4370.355"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's not until you're out\nthere doing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4372.183,4373.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e I work these days with Berkeley's\naccelerator called Skydeck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4375.069,4379.141"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And they, they had like 1000\napplicants for 18 places, or, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4379.822,4382.968"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e know, some key, wildly selective\nthing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4383.049,4390.868"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And then, and then we meet these\ncompanies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4391.309,4393.573"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, a few of them make\nit, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4393.693,4398.206"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Because everything falls into\nplace at the right time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4398.727,4402.074"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e But most of them, most of them\nstruggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4402.495,4404.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And that's true of startups.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4404.884,4406.187"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's been true as long as the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4407.109,4410.015"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e field has existed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4410.06,4410.987"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4411.642,4412.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4412.828,4413.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, this has been a wonderful\nway to spend an afternoon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4415.443,4419.411"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And I really appreciate your time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4419.472,4421.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks for sharing your thoughts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4421.46,4422.763"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks for sharing your memories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4423.185,4424.328"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and, you know, this, this, as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4425.19,4427.041"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e we construct this great kind of\noral history of open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4427.081,4430.31"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Bryan Berhenshausen:\u003c/strong\u003e It's just been 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my\npleasure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4433.962,4435.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And it forced me to recollect some\nof these things and to dig some of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4435.526,4439.702"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e these names out of the far reaches\nof my memory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4439.742,4442.773"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e It's definitely good to have it\ndown there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4444.464,4447.21"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e And I'll want to see the the final\nversion of it and, and perhaps","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4447.31,4453.29"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e post on my LinkedIn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4454.011,4455.235"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4456.346,4456.688"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e Where, where this is all gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4457.501,4459.324"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Tony Wasserman:\u003c/strong\u003e So, so that's great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4459.344,4461.448"}]},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43890/annotation/1348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/043/890/original/transcript_speakers.vtt?1685674436","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/043/890/original/transcript_speakers.vtt?1685674436"}]},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["TheirStory Transcript (VTT) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bryan Behrenshausen interviewing\nTony Wasserman for the FOSSDA","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=0.18,5.258"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=5.753,6.214"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony, thanks so much for doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=6.274,7.665"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=7.685,7.846"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Really appreciate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=7.906,8.63"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=10.262,10.803"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I want to start just to talk about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=12.346,14.85"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your early academic pursuits, I\nguess, because I'm trying to paint","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=14.911,19.203"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a picture of what gets a person\nattracted to open source and how","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=19.223,23.975"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"different people find their ways\ninto computer science and open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=24.08,27.228"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=27.248,27.529"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I want to talk about about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=27.569,29.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"where you went to college and what\nyou went to college for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=30.201,32.869"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think you were a double major,\nis that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=32.909,35.203"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=35.907,36.369"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=37.122,37.403"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tell me a little bit about where\nyou went to school and what you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=37.423,39.33"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"went to school for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=39.35,39.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I went to Cal, University 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math","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=66.227,68.632"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and physics at Berkeley, and I\ntook my first computing course as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=68.672,77.748"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a junior at Cal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=77.788,79.991"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was very quickly obvious to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=80.712,83.596"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me that I was much better at\nprogramming and computing than I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=83.636,87.45"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was at math or physics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=87.49,88.714"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so having gone through","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=90.522,95.448"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Berkeley, I then went to graduate\nschool at University of Wisconsin,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=95.829,101.917"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Madison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=101.98,102.501"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my original thought was that I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=103.363,105.569"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would go for a master's degree,\nbut they gave me money and made me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=105.61,110.085"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an RA and encouraged me to stay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=110.125,112.59"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So eventually I got a doctorate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=112.69,115.901"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in, of all things, artificial\nintelligence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=116.342,118.849"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=119.471,119.852"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I want to talk about that a little","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=119.872,121.26"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bit then too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=121.3,121.861"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=121.922,122.362"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that was very early in the AI\ndays during the initial wave of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=122.903,131.039"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"excitement, which then went to\nsleep for 50 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=131.14,134.646"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that was my academic education\nand coming out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=136.168,142.881"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the two things that stuck\nwith me from my graduate school","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=143.682,149.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was one, writing interactive\nprograms because the technology at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=149.794,156.692"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the time was really primitive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=156.712,158.255"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rolls of teletype paper that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=159.742,162.907"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"printed 10 uppercase characters\nper second and clattered as it did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=162.907,168.236"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=168.256,168.296"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when you put this in front of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=169.783,171.166"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"somebody who was unfamiliar with\ncomputers, as I had to do for my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=171.206,175.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"research, it was really quite an\ninteresting exercise and taught me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=175.38,180.852"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a lot at this very, very early\nstage of computing about user","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=180.872,186.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"experiences and human computer\ninteraction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=186.128,188.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And And I did a little bit more\nwork on that over the years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=188.995,193.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that was one thing that I came\naway with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=193.211,194.861"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the other thing that I came\naway with was how to architect","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=194.921,198.05"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"large software systems, because my\ndissertation program got to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=198.11,202.586"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"quite large and being able to read\nall this code after you've you've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=202.987,207.46"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"written it for years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=207.48,208.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And even if it's your own code,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=208.522,210.667"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"being able to do all these things\nthat we now take for granted in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=212.731,216.624"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software engineering levels of\nabstraction and modularization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=216.664,220.734"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went back and I looked at this\n50-plus-year-old code not too long","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=221.822,226.931"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ago, and it was written in ALGOL.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=226.951,229.476"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've only ever heard of that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=230.241,232.909"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"language.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=232.949,233.25"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think I've ever even seen","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=233.27,234.333"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=234.353,234.393"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALGOL is wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=235.161,236.244"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, it was perfect for these\nstack architectures machines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=236.364,240.815"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And ALGOL predates Fortran,\nactually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=242.243,244.869"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not by much, but it 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effort.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=248.762,251.507"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=251.968,253.591"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I did this on a Burroughs","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=253.651,256.541"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"computer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=256.581,257.041"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You've probably never heard of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=257.123,258.005"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Burroughs computers either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=258.065,259.148"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But at the time, it was IBM and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=259.85,262.783"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the seven dwarfs, RCA and General\nElectric and Honeywell and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=263.704,267.853"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Burroughs and UNIVAC and Control\nData.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=267.913,271.585"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's six.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=271.745,272.407"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's not bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=272.467,273.208"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's a seventh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=273.649,274.331"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, scientific data systems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=274.451,275.654"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's seven.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=276.18,276.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those are the seven dwarfs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=278.304,279.467"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And IBM had like 70% market share.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=280.329,281.751"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But that was where I did my work,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=288.463,292.61"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I learned about how to design\nlarge systems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=292.67,296.676"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=297.361,297.602"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I want to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=298.263,298.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's fascinating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=299.205,301.55"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I want to back up a little bit,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=301.57,303.574"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just talk about that crossroads\nthat you found yourself at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=303.614,306.304"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You sort of glossed over something\nI think is all too common for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=306.324,311.22"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"folks in academe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=311.3,312.182"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that is, you had a set of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=312.202,313.945"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interests that led you into\ncertain fields, in this case, math","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=314.426,320.402"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and physics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=320.422,320.944"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then there was something, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=321.947,323.251"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you said, because you were better\nat it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=323.271,324.801"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I would venture to say that\nthere's probably a lot of things","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=325.102,327.93"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you're good at or better at than\nmath and physics that you didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=327.971,331.345"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"go into.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=331.405,331.927"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I guess my question is twofold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=332.628,334.392"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One, what do you think it was\nabout you as a person that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=335.275,339.069"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"initially got started, math and\nphysics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=339.932,343.025"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What about your personality led\nyou to those fields?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=343.065,345.311"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then can you remember the\nmoment where you realized like,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=345.411,349.745"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oh, this is where I'm meant to go?\nDo you have any memories?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=350.106,355.456"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=357.063,357.664"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, from the time that I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=357.744,359.808"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very young, I was good at\narithmetic and mathematics and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=359.848,364.642"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"memory numbers, all things\nnumerical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=364.742,366.727"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so it seemed like the natural\ndirection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=367.609,370.261"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when you're in elementary\nschool or middle school or high","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=370.722,374.874"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"school, there are certain things\nthat you don't have to worry at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=374.914,380.891"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=381.011,381.172"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You just got it made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=381.212,382.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you're at that level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=382.875,387.225"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so it always seemed to me that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=388.387,391.812"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"my ability in mathematics was so\nnatural, and that was reinforced","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=392.032,396.904"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by SAT scores and high school\ngrades and all those kinds of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=397.004,402.996"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=403.036,403.236"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when it came time to pick a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=403.962,406.266"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"major, it wasn't as much as I'm\ninterested in history, for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=406.306,410.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=410.935,411.376"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=411.376,411.402"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And actually took some history","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=413.262,416.947"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"courses at Cal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=417.007,420.973"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It wasn't what I was going to do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=421.954,422.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with my life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=423.015,423.676"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I always had the impression that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=423.817,426.184"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could make a living at\nmathematics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=426.204,428.669"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I guess that's true still.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=429.932,432.22"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I assume so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=433.122,434.204"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I also assume that when you\nwere in school, in primary school,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=434.825,438.151"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you didn't have access to\ncomputers, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=441.02,443.506"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You wouldn't have known that you\nhad an affinity for computational","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=443.547,447.463"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mathematics or computer science or\ncomputer hardware in general,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=448.004,451.354"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because your first exposure to\nthem was probably at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=452.223,454.651"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"university level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=454.691,455.313"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=456.081,456.321"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=457.443,458.085"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because when I was seven years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=458.846,461.29"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"old, there was a national\nelection, and they had the UNIVAC","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=461.471,467.567"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"brain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=467.667,468.168"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=468.188,469.672"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I've seen the footage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=469.712,470.855"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Predicting the outcome of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=472.523,473.766"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"election.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=473.826,474.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was kind of my first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=474.307,477.213"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"introduction to computing, and and\nthey made it seem so mystical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=477.293,481.426"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was kind of there in the back\nof my mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=482.107,485.835"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But computing really was not an\nissue for people, certainly not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=485.935,495.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"until the late 1950s, when banks\nand airlines and the like began","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=495.254,501.707"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"using them for a lot of their\nroutine things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=502.529,506.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, computers were used in\nthe defense and military areas,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=506.416,512.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but that was not an area that I\nknew anything about, nor did I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=513.052,516.342"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have any interest in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=516.381,521.129"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I've done a PhD as well, and in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=521.789,525.776"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"my field in communication studies,\nthe dissertation involves","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=525.816,528.827"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"essentially like the production of\na large monograph, essentially","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=528.907,532.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like a book-length monograph.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=532.665,533.969"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But from what I understand, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=534.009,535.3"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you were saying earlier, your\ndissertation project involved, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=535.3,538.751"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sure, a significant amount of\nwriting, but also building a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=538.791,543.208"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=543.248,543.629"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=543.669,544.09"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=544.792,545.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, you know, my dissertation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=545.273,547.242"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"runs 200 some odd pages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=547.242,549.007"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think I have a digital copy of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=549.027,551.172"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it on this machine somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=551.232,552.66"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But because it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=555.825,559.391"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"systems-oriented, you had to build\nsomething and demonstrate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=559.511,564.502"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the code was somewhere above\n10,000 lines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=564.622,569.511"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't remember the exact count,\nbut it was a fair amount of code.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=569.531,573.123"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And what specific dissertation or\nwhat specific problem was your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=573.824,577.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dissertation trying to figure out?\nWhat were you tackling?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=577.861,581.811"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The title of the dissertation was\nAchievement of Skill and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=581.971,584.884"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Generality in an Artificial\nIntelligence Program, which is a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=584.965,589.165"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"problem that exists to this day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=589.225,590.812"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do they call Alexa add-ons,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=594.763,597.229"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right?\nThey call them skills.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=597.309,598.371"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You download skills for your\nAlexa, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=598.672,600.661"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We don't have any listening\ndevices in my house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=602.225,604.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=606.434,606.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Except for this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=607.844,608.507"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the things that strikes me\nas particularly interesting about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=615.261,619.493"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the OpenAI and the GPT-4 and BARD\ntechnologies is that they do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=619.573,625.43"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cover, they have one skill that\nthey're really, really good at,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=625.55,630.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which is information retrieval and\ncompression and restatement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=630.145,636.488"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it works across a wide variety\nof domains.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=637.85,640.656"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because the other day, for\nexample, I asked BARD to help me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=642.723,647.931"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"plan a couple of days of\nsightseeing on an upcoming trip.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=648.292,651.962"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it gave me a very nice list of\nsuggestions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=652.444,655.27"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1555","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At one o'clock in the afternoon,\ndo this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=655.291,657.862"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1556","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At three o'clock in the afternoon,\ndo that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=657.882,660.548"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1557","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Go have tapas at this place at\nthis time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=660.909,663.981"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1558","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was pretty impressive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=664.623,666.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1559","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What was your dissertation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=667.81,669.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1560","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"specifically?\nWhat did your program do with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=669.914,673.907"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1561","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"regard to AI?\nIt was the world's best bridge","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=673.947,677.054"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1562","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bidding program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=677.094,677.755"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1563","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=677.76,680.184"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1564","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because at the time, there was, of\ncourse, checkers, which was very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=682.047,687.375"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1565","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"early and not not such a huge\nproblem to build a skillful","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=687.476,694.752"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1566","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=694.792,695.213"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1567","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But people were starting to work","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=695.694,696.656"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1568","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on chess, of course, at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=696.736,698.424"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1569","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And chess is a combinatorially","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=698.584,701.131"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1570","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"difficult problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=701.192,702.154"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1571","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it turns out that bridge the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=703.683,705.006"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1572","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"same way, the number of hands that\ncan be dealt and the division of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=705.046,709.461"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1573","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them among multiple players, turns\nout that it's hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=709.541,716.091"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1574","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the technology that I used,\nthere were two or three","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=716.672,721.383"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"technologies, but what I used was\nrule-based.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=721.424,724.59"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that you had to, there there\nare ways, standard ways to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=725.853,729.866"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"evaluate the cards in your hand\nand to interpret the bids that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=729.926,736.522"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your partner makes to help you\ncome up with a final bid or maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=736.542,744.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1579","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seat to the opposition, the\ncontract that's to be made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=744.615,749.487"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1580","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, later on, after I had left\nthe university, I did, in fact,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=749.507,755.804"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1581","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"work with one other person and we\nbuilt the play of the hand part","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=757.327,761.335"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1582","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it played quite well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=761.435,763.162"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the fascinating thing about it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=764.043,766.788"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is that we found somebody who\nwanted to manufacture a box,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=767.268,772.74"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right?\nSo there's an item called the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=773.462,779.611"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Goran Bridge Master.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=779.651,780.993"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you can find them, they're","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=782.715,784.1"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very scarce, but on bidding sites,\nyou can find them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=784.12,787.95"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1589","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I have one that's kind of\nunopened, untouched.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=788.712,791.241"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1590","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the asking price was $350,\nwhich is, you know, it limited the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=791.842,794.867"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"appeal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=794.907,795.048"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, that was 1970s dollars, $350,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=801.381,802.704"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1593","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1970s dollars, not the cost of the\none from the internet that you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=802.704,807.78"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1594","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=807.82,808.021"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=808.843,809.124"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ah, gotcha.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=809.946,810.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, that limits your audience a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=810.708,812.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=812.853,813.154"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1599","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=813.214,813.334"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1600","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, a little bit prohibitive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=813.56,815.424"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, and of course, they didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=815.665,818.992"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"spend as much money as they might\nhave on marketing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=819.012,821.403"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So who knows?\nThere was no social media to get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=821.524,824.032"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the word out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=824.092,824.613"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we might have had a different","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=828.145,830.349"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"outcome in a modern era with a\ndifferent price point and a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=830.449,834.836"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"different marketing message, but\nthat's something we'll never know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=834.9,838.727"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=839.048,839.83"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when then did you first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=840.571,843.461"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"encounter the idea of open source\nsoftware?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=844.222,847.267"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I think it came about in two\nways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=848.068,852.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The first was that I was aware of\nthe things like IBM Share and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=853.58,862.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Guide, which were, you know, these\nannual meetings where the company","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=862.332,870.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would talk about its future plans,\nand people brought software to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=870.328,875.481"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"share.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=875.521,875.802"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the mentality at the time was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=877.245,879.59"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very, very different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=879.63,880.452"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is, it's the hardware that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=880.492,882.701"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"expensive, and the software isn't\nworth anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=882.761,885.828"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, here's my routine to\nperform this calculation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=886.229,890.983"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1621","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Here's this one to compute some\ntrajectory, you know, share and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=891.023,896.655"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1622","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"share alike.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=896.68,897.221"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1623","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so that was something I knew","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=898.683,903.612"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1624","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=903.692,903.992"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1625","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't have any particular use","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=904.012,905.756"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1626","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for it at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=905.816,907.782"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1627","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then when UNIX came in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=908.222,915.692"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1628","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1970s, I was on the faculty at UC\nSan Francisco, and then I was also","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=915.732,921.523"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1629","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a lecturer at Berkeley, where I\ntaught data structures and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=921.563,927.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1630","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"operating systems and things like\nthat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=927.794,930.903"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1631","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Berkeley at the time got one\nof the earliest PDP 1170, well, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=932.365,937.594"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1632","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"think it was a 45 originally, that\nran at least part of the day it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=937.614,945.168"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1633","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ran UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=945.229,945.809"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1634","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then very quickly, they had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=946.711,948.774"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1635","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"machines that ran UNIX all the\ntime.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=950.5,952.584"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1636","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Berkeley received a grant from\nthe United States Department of of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=953.185,958.396"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1637","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Defense that involved enhancing\nAT\u0026T UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=958.44,965.25"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1638","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Berkeley got the source code to\nAT\u0026T UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=966.352,969.396"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1639","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they made a bunch of changes,\nvirtual memory being the one that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=971.303,975.953"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1640","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is perhaps the most significant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=976.234,977.902"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1641","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They made this all run on a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=978.724,979.907"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1642","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"digital equipment corporation, VAX\n11780, and distributed it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=979.967,987.447"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1643","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the license from AT\u0026T was a\ncommercial license.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=988.328,993.056"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1644","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in the, in the academic\nsetting, with government money","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=994.603,999.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1645","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"being spent, then then the license\nwas different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=999.914,1003.425"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1646","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so they created the BSD\nlicense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1004.367,1009.056"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1647","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nobody used the term open source\nsoftware at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1010.142,1013.189"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1648","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was the BSD license.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1013.65,1015.695"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1649","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so anybody could obtain the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1017.302,1021.307"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1650","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software, or you could go spend\n$43,000 with AT\u0026T to get the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1022.689,1026.273"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1651","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"commercial one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1028.14,1028.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1652","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, there's a history","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1030.144,1032.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1653","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"here of different hardware\nvendors, either supporting the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1032.147,1036.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1654","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AT\u0026T version of the UNIX or the\nmodified Berkeley version of UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1036.221,1042.655"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1655","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, but the, the Berkeley version\ncertainly won out in academia","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1042.734,1047.752"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1656","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because the price was right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1047.791,1048.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1657","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we got to a point where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1049.881,1052.186"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1658","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"almost every computer science\ndepartment had a a VAX and ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1052.406,1059.525"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1659","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNIX and students learned a lot of\ntheir computing on UNIX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1059.625,1063.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1660","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Things like the VI editor were\ndeveloped by Bill Joy at, at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1064.981,1070.653"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1661","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1070.693,1071.174"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1662","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, he had a different","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1071.254,1074.726"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1663","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"version of UNIX of, I'm sorry, VI\nevery day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1074.806,1078.654"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1664","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you could, yes, it was really a\nmodel for the kind of rinse,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1078.674,1087.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1665","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lather and repeat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1087.915,1088.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1666","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was a, it was a very agile","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1091.883,1095.308"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1667","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"approach to building the software\nbefore anybody used the term agile","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1095.709,1101.402"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1668","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to describe the 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it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1325.301,1326.866"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1731","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And back to us and say, well,\nwho's going to support it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1327.749,1330.181"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1732","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we said, okay, we'll do 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1339.623,1343.229"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1736","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"things that we built at UCSF were\nfoundations for the computer aided","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1343.249,1348.761"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1737","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software engineering tools that 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era.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1354.423,1355.866"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1740","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And most of the software we built","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1356.788,1359.254"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1741","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the company was 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distributing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1375.035,1378.144"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1746","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we were distributing open\nsource software in 1980.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1378.605,1382.918"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1747","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, before that even 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1406.148,1409.234"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1757","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lead on that project, also started\na company called Relational","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1409.294,1414.23"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1758","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Technology initially.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1414.271,1415.474"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1759","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was just down the road from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1415.48,1418.205"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1760","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"campus in Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1418.265,1419.348"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1761","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But they were quite successful","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1420.891,1422.695"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1762","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with Relational Technology, which\nbecame Ingress, which eventually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1422.775,1428.792"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1763","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"got acquired by somebody, I don't\nknow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1428.832,1431.583"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1764","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And what was the name of your\ncompany again?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1431.925,1433.351"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1765","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interactive Development\nEnvironments, IDE.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1434.302,1436.648"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1766","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the product was called\nSoftware Through 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was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1450.889,1452.353"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1772","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"first.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1452.453,1452.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1773","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1453.261,1453.503"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1774","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sun basically took Berkeley Unix,\nthey hired Bill Joy and other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1454.201,1459.512"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1775","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people from Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1459.553,1460.895"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1776","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they created Sun OS, which was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1462.241,1466.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1777","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a closed operating system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1466.327,1467.629"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1778","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, just as our product","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1469.292,1473.2"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1779","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was closed at that point, so was\ntheirs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1473.24,1475.564"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1780","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so they were 1982.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1476.786,1478.749"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1781","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we didn't start IDE until","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1478.749,1480.546"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1782","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1983.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1480.546,1480.899"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1783","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we didn't release anything to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1483.46,1487.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1784","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"paying users until 1984.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1488.147,1489.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1785","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At the very end of 1984, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1489.088,1495.601"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1786","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"actually turned out we did our\nlaunch at a Sun user group meeting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1496.163,1499.39"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1787","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on election day in 1984.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1500.231,1501.599"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1788","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1502.921,1503.743"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1789","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1503.943,1504.845"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1790","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I'm trying to determine how I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1505.285,1509.312"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1791","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"want to ask this follow up\nquestion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1509.332,1510.775"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1792","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I guess it's twofold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1510.815,1512.201"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1793","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One, did you ever, did you always","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1512.502,1514.466"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1794","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"intend to work in the private\nsector like that, let alone start","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1514.526,1519.502"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1795","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a company?\nAnd second, did you ever think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1519.542,1522.671"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1796","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that you would start a company\nselling software?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1522.691,1525.465"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1797","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, by your own admission,\nwhen you got started in the field,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1525.505,1528.614"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1798","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the software was the trivial part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1528.72,1530.485"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1799","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was the hardware that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1530.605,1531.628"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1800","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"expensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1531.689,1532.17"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1801","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, here you are, what a decade","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1532.23,1534.322"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1802","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"later, you're building a business\non the buying and selling of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1534.362,1537.73"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1803","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1537.991,1538.412"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1804","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So did you intend to do you ever?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1539.314,1542.827"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1805","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you foresee that path for\nyourself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1543.168,1544.872"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1806","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Was that desirable?\nOr did did it just kind of play","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1545.293,1547.182"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1807","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out that way?\nYeah, I think that it's accurate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1547.242,1550.251"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1808","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say that it played out that\nway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1550.311,1551.761"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1809","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I wanted to come back to\nsomething you said a moment ago,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1552.102,1555.412"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1810","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software is not software was not\ntrivial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1555.692,1558.144"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1811","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, all the software that was\nbeing built in the 1960s broke.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1558.585,1560.99"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1812","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's why.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1561.05,1563.62"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1813","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's why NATO sponsored the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1563.641,1567.588"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1814","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"conferences that led to software\nengineering as a discipline,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1567.628,1571.195"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1815","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right?\nThere was a NATO conference in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1571.66,1575.507"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1816","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Garmisch, Germany at the end of\n1968, and a follow up in Rome at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1576.108,1581.662"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1817","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"late in 1969.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1581.782,1583.05"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1818","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there are these two volumes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1583.566,1584.949"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1819","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that came out of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1585.009,1585.851"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1820","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And many of the famous early","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1586.693,1588.722"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1821","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people in the software engineering\ncommunity participated in this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1588.802,1592.471"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1822","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which in effect, defined software\nengineering, and recognized that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1592.812,1597.268"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1823","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"building software was anything but\ntrivial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1597.649,1599.855"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1824","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maybe I should Yeah, that's I miss\nI misspeak when I say that maybe I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1600.903,1603.49"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1825","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"should say sort of economically\ntrivial, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1603.531,1606.204"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1826","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or by your going by what you were\ntalking about how to earlier like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1606.224,1610.655"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1827","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it was everybody thought the\nmoney was in the hardware.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1610.72,1612.806"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1828","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The software was just the stuff\nthat you passed around freely to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1613.348,1616.684"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1829","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it was not as valuable hardware\nwas right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1617.366,1619.953"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1830","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So. So it wasn't business on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1619.993,1623.527"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1831","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, but it wasn't until software","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1624.288,1626.192"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1832","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was perceived to have value, that\nit made sense to have a business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1626.292,1630.905"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1833","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the, the earliest commercial\nsoftware was a sorting program in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1630.965,1639.082"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1834","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the mid 1960s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1639.162,1641.365"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1835","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was that came about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1641.625,1643.989"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1836","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because in 1964, IBM announced the\nIBM, the system 360.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1644.069,1646.439"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1837","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in in the before that they had\ncommercial machines that were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1651.584,1656.372"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1838","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"decimal oriented, and scientific\nmachines that were binary oriented","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1657.093,1662.389"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1839","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to completely different lines of\nmachines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1662.81,1664.594"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1840","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so system 360 says, Well, you\nknow, we're going to do it all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1665.402,1669.152"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1841","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And oh, by the way, we're going to\nbuild a family of machines from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1669.513,1673.186"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1842","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"small to large, that they had less\npower than than your mobile phone,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1673.647,1679.484"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1843","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but but but they did go small to\nlarge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1679.544,1685.835"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1844","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so somebody said, Well, you\nknow, all these commercial","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1685.855,1688.905"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1845","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"businesses need a sorting program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1688.945,1690.529"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1846","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's going to run on all these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1691.692,1693.561"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1847","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IBM 360.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1693.561,1694.107"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1848","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so that was the start of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1696.507,1697.93"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1849","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"commercial software business in\nthe mid 1960s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1697.97,1699.573"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1850","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and then there were some data\nmanagement programs that that 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nobody's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1708.383,1711.71"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1853","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ever heard of at this at this\ntime, but it was a big thing in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1711.75,1715.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1854","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"its time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1715.201,1715.722"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1855","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so so the software industry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1717.625,1719.729"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1856","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"began to develop in the 1970s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1720.13,1722.013"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1857","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that, you know, that opened up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1722.073,1728.486"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1858","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a possibility.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1728.546,1729.307"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1859","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think that my switching from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1729.588,1734.595"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1860","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"academia to to industry was was\ndriven by several things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1734.755,1740.651"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1861","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One is sort of being in the right\nplace at the right time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1741.193,1744.283"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1862","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"place at the right time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1744.283,1744.333"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1863","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, the the the energy, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1744.333,1747.187"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1864","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"buzz around Unix, certainly was\ninfluential.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1747.267,1753.858"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1865","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then my early exposure to Sun\nMicrosystems, because the among","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1753.958,1761.693"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1866","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the first machines that were\navailable were available were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1761.733,1764.521"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1867","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"given to Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1764.982,1765.843"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1868","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so my students and I had an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1767.826,1770.51"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1869","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"opportunity very early on to build\nthis graphical software that took","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1770.911,1777.264"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1870","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"advantage of the large bitmap\nbitmap display, which was kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1777.305,1783.316"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1871","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cool at the time, right?\nThe computer aided design programs","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1783.38,1788.73"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1872","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had preceded computer aided\nsoftware engineering engineering","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1788.791,1791.821"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1873","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by a couple of years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1791.861,1792.683"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1874","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, you know, you sort of you put","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1793.264,1796.752"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1875","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one and one together and say, hey,\nwe have this unique technology, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1796.853,1800.085"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1876","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have people who want us to support\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1800.125,1801.89"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1877","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We have these ideas about tools\nfor doing software design.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1803.133,1806.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1878","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, there are a lot of\nother people starting companies","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1806.426,1810.242"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1879","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these days, and we're at least as\nsmart as they are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1810.303,1813.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1880","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we thought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1813.512,1814.074"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1881","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So off we went.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1816.503,1817.184"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1882","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the company, we got financial\nfunding, we were actually IDE was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1818.727,1824.315"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1883","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one of the first hundred dot coms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1824.395,1826.343"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1884","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, you think today of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1827.205,1828.889"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1885","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the millions and millions and\nmillions, we were number 78.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1828.929,1831.816"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1886","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How do you know that number?\nBecause there's a website called","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1834.768,1837.887"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1887","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"first hundred dot coms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1837.947,1839.152"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1888","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And how do they do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1839.881,1840.904"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1889","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like they rank them or they note\nthem based on when you like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1840.924,1843.832"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1890","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"incorporated like your\nincorporation date or the or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1843.892,1847.588"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1891","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"registered you registered the\ndomain name or what's the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1847.668,1849.994"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1892","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, it was the domain\nregistration that triggered it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1850.44,1852.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1893","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So so a company like Symbolics,\nwhich is a LISP machine, an AI","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1853.007,1859.169"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1894","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oriented machine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1859.95,1860.732"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1895","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think they were number one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1860.792,1861.895"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1896","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, who's heard of\nSymbolics these days?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1862.923,1866.574"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1897","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1867.104,1867.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1898","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So so it's a question of being in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1868.441,1871.668"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1899","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the right place in the right time\nand putting one and one together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1871.748,1875.015"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1900","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say it was fairly\nopportunistic because I gave up a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1875.04,1878.449"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1901","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tenured faculty position.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1878.529,1879.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1902","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, that's not easy to leave","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1880.36,1881.445"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1903","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"leave behind for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1881.766,1882.671"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1904","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, you know, we the world was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1883.621,1886.686"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1905","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"changing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1886.726,1887.127"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1906","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we were able to build a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1888.088,1891.594"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1907","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"company that had a really leading\nedge technology and it ran on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1891.654,1898.553"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1908","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"leading edge hardware.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1898.693,1899.675"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1909","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had a very good partnership","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1900.864,1902.288"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1910","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with Sun Microsystems because we\nwere one of their first 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a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1921.327,1924.795"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1917","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sun workstation and, you know,\nequip an engineer that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1924.94,1928.748"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1918","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so the Sun salespeople got the\nidea right 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source,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2018.026,2023.179"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1960","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"use the phrase open source\nsoftware?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2023.325,2024.87"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1961","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, what you heard first was\nfree 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Richard","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2027.818,2027.868"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1965","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Stallman at MIT, who thought that\nall software should be free.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2027.868,2030.226"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1966","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he may still think 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and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2084.806,2092.563"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1980","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suggesting that they use open\nsource.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2092.583,2093.827"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/1981","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it wasn't really until after\nthe open source initiative 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all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2191.788,2196.776"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2006","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that far away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2196.796,2197.477"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2007","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so so I ran their West 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because by that time,\nBluestone had sold itself to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2220.501,2227.082"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2019","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hewlett Packard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2227.323,2227.984"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2020","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so when we wanted to give 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Colorado\nSprings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2258.728,2261.735"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2027","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some very well known people in the\nopen source community were there,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2263.243,2268.373"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2028","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Stormy Peters, who you probably\nknow from her stint at Microsoft","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2268.393,2274.712"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2029","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and at GitHub.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2274.832,2276.215"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2030","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Phil Robb, who runs open source","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2277.883,2279.666"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2031","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for Ericsson here in the United\nStates.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2279.726,2282.01"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2032","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And several other people, I mean,\nthere was a really, they were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2283.653,2287.083"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2033","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really avant garde, if you will,\nwhen it comes to They built the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2287.123,2292.906"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2034","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole Fossology lab.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2292.946,2296.323"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2035","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But this other little corner of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2297.245,2298.767"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2036","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hewlett Packard didn't do open\nsource.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2298.807,2303.094"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2037","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we gave away the source code,\nbut it didn't have an open 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2308.208,2310.634"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2040","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"copyright to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2310.674,2313.466"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2041","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, in practice, we retained","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2314.148,2315.612"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2042","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the copyright to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2315.632,2316.494"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2043","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2317.081,2318.343"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2044","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you mentioned a couple names of\nfolks, you know, from those days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2318.844,2323.153"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2045","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do you remember about your\nearly encounters, I guess, with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2323.654,2328.89"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2046","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people in the open source\necosystem early on when it was in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2329.01,2333.489"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2047","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"its genesis?\nWell, part of that, of course, is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2333.509,2338.53"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2048","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"based on what we mean by genesis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2338.59,2340.415"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2049","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2340.983,2341.848"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2050","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, I mean, there are people\nwho were there at the very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2342.16,2345.129"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2051","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"beginning, Bruce Perens, for\nexample, and Brian Bellendorf, who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2345.329,2352.988"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2052","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was at CollabNet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2353.349,2354.45"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2053","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I didn't meet them till later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2355.812,2359.317"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2054","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And because I hadn't really sunk\ninto that community yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2361.183,2364.971"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2055","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But what happened was, in 2004, I\nwas running product development","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2365.612,2375.713"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2056","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for another startup that was not\ngoing to be successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2375.833,2378.442"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2057","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But you know, 90% of them failed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2379.063,2382.252"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2058","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2382.333,2383.035"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2059","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2383.035,2384.107"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2060","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It wasn't my startup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2384.441,2385.869"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2061","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2385.92,2386.986"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2062","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2388.501,2389.702"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2063","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was two guys who had, I\nthink, a promising idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2390.383,2396.77"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2064","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they built the company, they\nbuilt the product, and the company","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2396.79,2404.664"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2065","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stuck around for a little while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2404.744,2406.126"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2066","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2407.209,2409.233"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2067","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In 2004, it turns out I went to\nthe International Conference on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2409.233,2414.371"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2068","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Software Engineering in Edinburgh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2414.411,2418.685"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2069","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And one of the people that I ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2420.788,2423.512"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2070","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"into there, I've been going to\nthese international conferences on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2423.572,2427.883"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2071","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software engineering since the\nvery first one in the mid 70s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2427.923,2432.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2072","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So one of the people I met there\nwas Martin Griss, who I had known","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2434.404,2437.931"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2073","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for many years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2437.972,2438.653"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2074","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He ran the research lab at Hewlett","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2439.314,2441.043"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2075","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Packard for a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2441.083,2442.226"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2076","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then he had just joined the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2443.148,2448.764"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2077","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"brand new Carnegie Mellon campus\nthat's in Silicon Valley, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2449.064,2454.254"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2078","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for people who know the geography,\nis on the NASA Ames Research Park","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2454.394,2459.447"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2079","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in Mountain View.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2459.507,2460.188"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2080","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Martin says to me, hey, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2461.41,2465.22"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2081","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, we're doing, we're getting\nthis academic program in software","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2465.26,2469.973"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2082","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"engineering started out here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2469.993,2471.562"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2083","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why don't you come around and take","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2471.582,2473.267"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2084","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a look.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2473.307,2473.648"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2085","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One thing led to another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2475.072,2475.994"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2086","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in 2005, I joined the faculty\nthere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2477.242,2481.909"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2087","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And one of the things that came\nout of that was that I wanted 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I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2716.209,2719.114"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"formulated at that time, which is\nhow much can you do with only open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2719.194,2727.234"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source software?\nOkay, so, so OpenOffice was there,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2727.274,2732.608"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right?\nIt wasn't as compatible with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2732.628,2735.874"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Microsoft Office, then as it is\nnow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2736.054,2738.382"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, LibreOffice also was a\nfork from that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2738.402,2743.031"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were early content\nmanagement 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still\naround.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2751.57,2752.993"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Drupal has a huge community, has\nbeen a huge success.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2753.393,2756.823"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, it was actually Dries\nVoithoudt's PhD 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yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2764.247,2764.77"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2764.91,2765.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, so, but what we, so those are\nkind of the grassroots of a lot of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2765.52,2772.873"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"open source, and people were\nputting open source on a shared","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2773.194,2777.789"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"repository, SourceForge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2778.13,2779.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So SourceForge was the GitHub of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2781.482,2784.447"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"its day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2784.507,2785.088"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And again, SourceForge still","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2787.172,2789.035"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"exists, but obviously has been\ndwarfed by the adoption and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2789.095,2796.052"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"widespread use of GitHub.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2796.092,2797.776"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, not everything dies,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2799.604,2802.691"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it just kind of hangs around for a\nwhile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2802.771,2804.755"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2804.8,2806.323"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, then, when did you, when did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2806.784,2809.69"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know that you wanted to play a\nmore pivotal role in influencing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2809.73,2814.745"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the, in stewarding open source?\nYou were, you joined the OSI at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2814.846,2818.955"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some point, right?\nSo that was a little 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long\ntime.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2826.983,2829.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in 2005, my first year at\nCarnegie Mellon, I organized a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2829.469,2835.366"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"conference on open source software\nin the Bay Area, and we got 100 or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2835.446,2842.684"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so people, and I managed to get\nsome, you know, luminaries in, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2842.724,2848.474"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"open source, Denise Cooper was one\nof our speakers, for example, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2848.534,2852.248"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she's certainly very well known\nfor her long term contributions in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2852.85,2857.926"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"open 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happening","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2868.728,2874.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"slowly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2874.201,2874.642"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because at that time, and 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proprietary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2893.051,2898.086"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software businesses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2898.106,2899.068"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, of course, you had 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they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2907.911,2911.884"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"needed from proprietary software,\nand had no use for open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2911.924,2917.701"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the executives in some of\nthose companies would say, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2919.004,2921.87"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't use open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2922.752,2923.775"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my answer to them was, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2925.104,2927.109"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"want to bet?\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2927.15,2928.955"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2931.944,2932.264"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you know, at that time, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2933.226,2935.631"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had the emergence of companies\nlike Black Duck, which were out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2935.711,2940.824"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there analyzing source code and\nlooking for open source software","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2940.884,2946.034"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in those larger systems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2946.875,2950.067"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And surprise, surprise, there 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these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2974.4,2982.573"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"companies said, you know, we have\nall this work to do, and our","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2982.673,2986.685"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"budgets have all been cut.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2986.745,2988.129"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Let's go take a look at this open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2988.73,2990.42"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source stuff, which is free.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2990.48,2993.826"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so that's what they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2994.667,2996.611"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we saw, we began to see\ngradual adoption of open source 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all\nthese.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3010.987,3014.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It took a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3016.423,3017.545"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in fact, it's still 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quadrants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3028.451,3032.066"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other quadrant, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3032.467,3033.271"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So how do you get open 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don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3046.065,3048.96"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have the support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3048.98,3049.842"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so what turns out, as we 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used","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3058.746,3064.843"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3064.903,3065.784"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Drupal, for example, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3066.666,3070.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"founders of Drupal set up a\ncompany called Acquia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3070.853,3073.221"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Acquia provides a very good\nlevel of hosting and commercial","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3074.663,3079.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"support for Drupal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3079.313,3084.864"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have the same thing with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3085.365,3086.487"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cassandra and Hadoop, where there\nare companies that provide 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your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3092.385,3093.488"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"question about open source and the\nOSI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3093.529,3097.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the OSI, of course, was founded\nin 1998.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3098.986,3102.471"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they had a board of directors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3102.471,3105.756"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the board of directors, of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3106.46,3108.864"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"course, was started by Bruce\nPerens and by Eric Raymond.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3108.944,3114.594"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And what's his name from Red Hat?\nMichael Tiemann.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3116.381,3122.956"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3123.561,3124.522"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Michael Tiemann, and then 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did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3151.668,3156.635"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Simon had been at Sun\nMicrosystems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3157.096,3159.323"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he has, these days, a very\nsuccessful open source 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two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3183.611,3186.576"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"terms, you know, I was termed out,\nright?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3186.616,3189.305"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was the legal 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program,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3193.755,3199.411"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so that many of the other groups\nthat were doing open source","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3199.972,3203.826"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software, and many of the\nfoundations doing open source","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3203.866,3207.194"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software became affiliates of the\nOSI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3207.214,3212.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that, and that had the, you\nknow, that led to 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foundation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3224.054,3228.945"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So getting and eventually, the\naffiliates, some of them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3229.005,3236.477"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"contributed money and money and so\none of the other good things 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now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3248.468,3253.715"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you had somebody whose job it was,\nprimary job was to represent 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you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3262.013,3265.022"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, earning a living doing other\nthings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3265.062,3267.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And another thing that happened\nduring that era was the creation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3269.489,3275.224"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of individual 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OSI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3278.793,3279.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, right, where an organization","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3279.6,3281.686"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3281.706,3281.906"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3282.548,3282.748"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As you know, the Free Software\nFoundation has individual members","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3282.869,3286.202"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the Linux Foundation has\nindividual members, and other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3286.242,3292.634"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"groups as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3292.674,3293.756"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The OSI did not until about 2014,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3295.181,3297.671"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"maybe, not that long ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3298.265,3303.772"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there was not much of a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3304.553,3307.396"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"marketing program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3307.476,3308.501"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they, you know, you'd have a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3309.744,3311.809"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"conference like the O'Reilly\nconference, where the OSI would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3311.99,3317.186"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have a booth and, and we tell\npeople, you know, please, please","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3317.206,3322.235"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"join.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3322.295,3322.596"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We didn't have all that much to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3324.606,3325.83"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"give them in return.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3325.93,3326.953"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The OSI didn't run its own","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3330.404,3332.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"conferences, they didn't teach its\nown courses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3332.108,3335.395"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so the OSI's main mission then\nand now has been over license","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3336.541,3342.034"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"approval.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3342.054,3342.415"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3343.221,3344.243"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3344.643,3344.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, and I think that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3345.184,3348.911"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something that not only has the\nOSI done, done well, but that the,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3348.951,3354.385"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the open source community as a\nwhole, looks to the OSI for its","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3354.426,3358.64"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"leadership and voice on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3359.081,3362.607"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3363.248,3363.769"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So if I understand the timeline,\ncorrectly, you know, when you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3364.43,3368.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"started, you know, building that\nprogram around studying open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3369.345,3372.681"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source adoption, that was prior to\nwhat you kind of signaled as sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3372.721,3378.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the more popular mainstream\ninterest in open source, like, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3378.573,3382.949"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was prior to the Great Recession,\nwhich you benchmark as kind of a,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3383.671,3386.443"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that just tells me it's sort of,\nyou were on, you were onto","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3387.947,3391.115"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something, right, that you had an\ninkling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3391.16,3393.206"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm wondering what, what was\nit about open source and about the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3393.226,3396.781"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"idea of open source?\nWhat did you see at the time that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3396.841,3401.271"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sparked your passion and curiosity\nto pursue, build that program and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3401.913,3406.408"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"pursue that?\nIt, you know, it just, it tells me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3406.448,3409.535"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you had, you had insight into\nsomething, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3409.7,3411.867"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there are a couple of things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3412.107,3413.171"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First of all, in 2005, there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3413.532,3416.905"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an effort started called the\nBusiness Readiness Rating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3416.945,3419.77"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and it was started by\nSpikeSource, which was a startup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3420.712,3427.027"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the CEO of SpikeSource was Kim\nPolese, who was the first product","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3427.848,3433.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manager for Java at Sun. They, all\nthese pieces eventually come back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3433.161,3438.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3438.814,3439.215"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, Yeah, right, right, right,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3439.215,3440.106"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3440.147,3440.589"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and then the, there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3441.221,3445.909"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"funding from Intel, a guy named\nPete Kronowit, who has since left","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3445.949,3452.504"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"computing to be a musician.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3452.544,3454.427"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and O'Reilly, Nat forget his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3455.95,3463.124"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"last name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3463.164,3463.564"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, Nat was the representative","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3464.927,3468.293"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from O'Reilly, so that, and then\nme.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3468.393,3470.7"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the, the four groups created\nthis Business Readiness Rating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3471.501,3478.093"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And as you can imagine, this is\nright up my alley of evaluation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3478.414,3482.185"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and adoption.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3482.245,3482.947"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What makes a piece of open 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internal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3496.788,3500.622"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3500.822,3501.003"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So what we did was we came 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of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3508.3,3509.722"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3509.762,3509.883"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was a way that you could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3511.205,3515.674"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"look at a piece of open source\nsoftware and score it on these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3516.014,3518.463"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"criteria, documentation, the\nquality of the code, the existence","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3518.503,3525.021"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of some kind of a process for\nreviewing bugs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3525.201,3528.108"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All these kinds of things could be\nscored on a zero to five scale,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3529.431,3532.462"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and you could add up all the\nnumbers and weight them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3532.503,3534.467"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it turned out, when you think\nabout it, that you didn't have 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the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3547.164,3552.494"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ones that already provided the\nsame kind of customer support and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3552.614,3557.086"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"updates and roadmaps that\ncompanies and businesses expected","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3557.206,3563.401"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from commercial software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3563.983,3565.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So if you made your open 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readiness","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3571.624,3577.015"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rating score than if it was two\ngraduate students who were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3577.06,3583.912"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"releasing new versions of the\nsoftware whenever it pleased them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3583.932,3587.724"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Coming in little mailers and\nshipping them out of their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3588.005,3590.011"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apartment or something, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3590.032,3591.461"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3592.483,3592.984"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the business readiness rating\nwas a good idea, but we didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3593.425,3600.616"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"build automated tools to let you\nsay, here's this piece of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3600.62,3606.291"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software, go evaluate it for, you\ncan only evaluate part of it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3606.331,3611.345"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because other things, you had to\ngo, for example, look on Amazon","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3611.385,3616.055"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and say, well, how many books are\nwritten about this particular","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3616.12,3618.966"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"piece of software?\nOh, so what happened, first of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3619.608,3625.123"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all, is that the guy who was the\nmain spike source contributor is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3625.163,3631.595"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Murugan Pal, and he got sick and\nhe's no longer with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3631.655,3636.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He died maybe a decade ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3636.427,3639.793"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Nat from O'Reilly went home to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3639.813,3645.547"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"New Zealand, and Pete Cronenweth\nfrom Intel had other things he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3645.607,3652.239"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wanted to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3652.302,3652.902"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it kind of disintegrated, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3653.323,3658.23"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it actually stayed moribund, if\nyou will, for a number of years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3658.891,3664.539"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then maybe if you will, for a\nnumber of years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3664.539,3664.649"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then maybe around 2012 or 13,\nI said, well, this is a good idea,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3664.649,3666.725"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so let's bring it back to life and\nlet's fix some of the things that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3666.765,3677.625"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we need to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3679.528,3680.33"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So first of all, we gave the new","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3681.933,3683.315"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"project a name, and the name is\nOSS Pal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3683.6,3686.105"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Pal is obviously a double\nentendre, one as an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3686.706,3691.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"acknowledgement to Murugan Pal and\nthe other, that it's your pal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3691.36,3695.93"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, yep, yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3696.191,3697.234"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's your open source software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3697.594,3698.742"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I love the name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3698.762,3699.583"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the other thing we did in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3700.104,3703.912"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OSS Pal project, it was up for\nmany years on on OSSPal.org, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3703.993,3710.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no longer is maintained, it's not\nthere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3710.89,3713.856"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So instead, if you go out and do a\nsearch for, let's say, content","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3716.685,3723.237"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"management systems, or even\nmanagement systems, or even open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3723.277,3727.17"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source content management systems,\nyou're going to get some huge","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3727.21,3730.598"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"number of hits.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3730.658,3731.319"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So if I'm some huge number of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3731.319,3733.108"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hits.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3733.108,3733.118"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So if I'm in, if I'm some engineer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3733.118,3735.072"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in some company, and I say, well,\nI want to go try one of these open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3735.132,3738.285"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one of these open source content\nmanagement systems, and you go to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3738.285,3742.436"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your favorite search engine, and\nyou type you go to your favorite","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3742.476,3743.97"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"search engine, and you type you go\nto your favorite search engine,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3743.97,3744.157"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and you type you go to your\nfavorite search engine, and you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3744.157,3744.277"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"type in open source content\nmanagement systems, you know, this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3744.277,3747.646"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3747.886,3748.489"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3748.97,3749.091"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like 1400 of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3749.091,3754.165"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can only imagine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3754.185,3756.569"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3756.669,3756.889"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3757.551,3757.811"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we said, yeah, that's never\ngoing to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3758.031,3760.616"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So what we decided to do with\nOSSPal, and I think it's it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3761.301,3765.271"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really a sound idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3765.372,3766.515"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And if I had the resources, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3767.242,3769.048"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bring it all back to life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3769.169,3770.313"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As we curated, we said, look, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3771.0,3775.75"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, what we know from our\nprevious experiences, there's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3775.79,3778.84"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"certain things that you need to\nhave in a project for it to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3778.9,3783.451"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suitable for business use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3783.612,3784.975"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we could go in there and look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3785.661,3787.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at Drupal, for example, and say,\nah, okay, well, there's a company","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3787.706,3792.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that supports it, there's an\necosystem around it, there's a big","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3792.2,3795.848"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3795.908,3796.53"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's been around for a while,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3797.993,3799.481"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there's a roadmap, there are new\nreleases, all these things that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3799.561,3803.349"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"make it attractive to people who\nwould be evaluating software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3803.47,3809.707"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, that makes the bar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3810.288,3813.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So what we would do was to find","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3813.794,3816.523"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"candidates that people would want\nto look at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3817.445,3820.491"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So rather than our saying to you,\nuse this content management","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3820.852,3825.087"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"system, we use this database\nmanagement system, we would say,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3825.127,3828.743"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"here are three or five candidates\nthat we think you should look at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3828.763,3833.555"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then they could put weights\nfor the different criteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3836.003,3840.191"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some of those criteria were based\non the domain in which the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3840.532,3845.004"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"software works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3845.024,3845.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you ask different things in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3845.906,3848.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"evaluating a database management\nsystem than you do in evaluating a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3848.573,3851.948"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"content management system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3852.009,3853.153"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Does this take you back at all to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3853.16,3856.368"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that dissertation project about,\nyou know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3856.408,3858.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not really, no. No, but here are\nthese criteria that you're going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3859.281,3865.971"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3865.991,3866.432"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we would pick several of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3866.752,3868.215"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3868.255,3868.355"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we worked with IDC, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3868.9,3872.846"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"analyst company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3873.006,3873.787"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And IDC, it turns out, every year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3875.29,3879.076"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"publishes a software taxonomy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3879.156,3881.102"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And their software taxonomy breaks","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3881.944,3884.51"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all of software into categories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3884.67,3886.754"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there are about 80 categories","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3887.235,3888.862"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they identify.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3890.105,3891.687"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Was it a perfect fit for open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3894.873,3896.395"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source?\nNot entirely, because a lot of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3896.496,3900.809"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"open source projects that were\nmost widely used were developer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3900.889,3904.302"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tools and infrastructure, much\nless the application side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3904.382,3910.353"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was a good starting point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3910.874,3912.762"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we tried adding some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3912.822,3915.428"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"additional application domains so\nwe could divide up development","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3915.468,3919.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tools, for example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3919.982,3920.883"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we went ahead with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3922.046,3923.468"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the idea was, okay, we're\ngoing to do the curation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3923.769,3928.422"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now what we want is we get these\nevaluations partly on the basis of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3928.502,3935.356"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the domain, and partly in general,\nright?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3935.42,3940.851"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How much documentation is there?\nIs there the kind of generic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3940.911,3945.728"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"things that you might ask about\nany piece of software?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3945.748,3947.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the idea then was that people\nwould write reviews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3949.462,3955.65"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, so I've used Mozilla\nFirefox, okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3955.67,3960.621"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And here's how I would evaluate\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3960.701,3963.347"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The same way you would evaluate a\nmovie or a restaurant or much of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3963.648,3966.941"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anything else, give it, you know,\na bunch of check marks or scores,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3967.001,3970.533"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"05 in these different categories,\nand then free text.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3970.533,3975.107"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, we had the same\nissue that all online surveys","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3976.61,3983.123"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have, which is that, how do you\nknow that the person who's writing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3983.183,3991.135"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the review is being accurate about\nit?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3991.155,3994.225"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3994.246,3996.591"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's not much you can do about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3996.611,3997.734"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, other than asking people to\nregister and get their email","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3997.754,4000.969"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"address and verify it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4001.01,4002.173"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But we really didn't have the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4004.564,4005.686"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resources to do the kind of\nawareness generation, not to say","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4005.746,4011.482"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"marketing, that it would take to\nbring a lot of people in to write","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4011.522,4018.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these reviews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4019.114,4019.815"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we concluded that it was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4020.256,4022.665"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"great idea, and that if we were\ndoing it as a commercial venture","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4022.725,4026.574"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and could raise venture capital to\nbuild it, it would be valuable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4026.675,4033.872"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What's happened in the meantime\nis, of course, the STARS mechanism","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4035.114,4042.571"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that exists on GitHub.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4042.611,4043.652"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's always been, or at least","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4043.672,4046.121"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there's been for a long time,\nOpenHub, which lets you look at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4046.141,4050.093"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the source code, and the\ncontributions, and the dates, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4050.133,4052.744"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the, let's say, the aliveness of a\nparticular project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4053.185,4058.621"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there's some other things that\nare out there that play a valuable","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4059.643,4065.013"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"role in terms of helping people\nevaluate open source software.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4065.073,4069.647"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, of course, more and more with\ncommercial open source, you have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4070.028,4073.642"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"salespeople.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4073.722,4079.13"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you have conferences like the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4079.771,4081.855"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Open Source Summit that the Linux\nFoundation puts on several times a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4081.915,4086.027"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year around the world, and those\nhave exhibit booths.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4086.048,4089.08"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so that's an opportunity for\nthese commercial businesses to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4089.781,4097.635"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tell the world about their\nproducts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4097.694,4099.081"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, the final question I wanted\nto ask you was about what you see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4100.944,4105.613"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as the biggest challenges for open\nsource as an idea, or for open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4105.634,4113.434"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source as a movement, or even as a\nset of practices in the future.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4113.474,4118.509"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now and in the future, what you\nsee is the largest potential","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4118.85,4121.923"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"impediments to its proliferation\nor growth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4121.983,4124.49"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I wonder if that's, is that\none of them, curation, you see as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4124.529,4128.229"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a challenge or an issue?\nWell, there are a lot of issues,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4128.408,4131.425"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4131.484,4131.926"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, answering this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4132.267,4134.492"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would depend on how much time we\nhave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4134.533,4136.161"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the first part of it is that\nproprietary software isn't going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4138.865,4144.473"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4144.533,4144.774"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, that, you know, there are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4144.794,4147.943"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these pipe dreams that some people\nhave had about, you know, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4148.023,4151.872"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"world going to open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4151.912,4153.281"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, I simply don't see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4153.702,4156.287"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oracle giving away their source\ncode, or other companies with such","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4158.171,4163.567"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a major investment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4163.587,4164.85"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, Microsoft did a bit of that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4165.111,4166.474"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"when they did Visual Studio Code,\nabove what was in Visual Studio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4166.533,4171.787"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Pro, I think, and made that freely\navailable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4171.808,4176.576"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there's some other examples of\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4176.616,4178.162"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think open source and\nproprietary software are going to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4178.743,4183.06"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to coexist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4183.06,4183.741"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that over time, as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4184.341,4186.206"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"more people come into the\nindustry, they're going to do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4186.265,4193.482"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"their evaluations based on\nfunctionality of the product,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4193.522,4198.851"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rather than, oh, it's open, or\nit's closed, or here's how much it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4199.252,4204.125"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"costs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4204.165,4204.566"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, that those become factors","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4204.586,4206.832"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in doing evaluation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4207.413,4208.781"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another thing is that open source","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4209.602,4213.67"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"has not been very strong, for\nexample, in mobile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4213.71,4216.876"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when you start to look at all\nthe applications that have been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4218.122,4221.168"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"developed for mobile devices, you\nyou know, you put the F Droid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4221.809,4229.527"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2555","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"library, which is the Android\nmobile app, you put that up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4230.188,4234.876"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2556","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"against Google's Play Store.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4234.936,4236.362"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2557","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's a joke.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4236.722,4237.544"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2558","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4238.065,4238.505"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2559","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4238.586,4238.806"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2560","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and Apple, in their store,\nyou know, makes it very difficult","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4239.026,4247.729"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2561","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to get open source software in\nthere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4248.009,4249.674"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2562","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there's not, there's not much\nof it there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4250.782,4253.288"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2563","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there are some definite\nchallenges to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4253.769,4258.525"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2564","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, there's still this\neducational process of how do you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4258.806,4263.022"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2565","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"make money at open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4263.062,4264.365"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2566","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And now I teach open 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Mellon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4271.246,4271.908"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2569","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's evolved over the years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4271.969,4273.272"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2570","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of course, has brought guests in\nto share their experience and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4273.313,4278.371"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2571","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"knowledge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4278.411,4278.792"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2572","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But you know, there's still people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4278.812,4284.786"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2573","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who don't believe, yeah, why would\nyou write software for free?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4284.826,4289.155"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2574","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4289.861,4290.022"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and my answer to them is,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4290.142,4291.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"well, why would you go volunteer\nyour time at the hospital to help","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4291.987,4295.52"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"six people, sick people?\nWhy would you go to a place where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4295.581,4299.869"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there's been a natural disaster\nand do your best to help out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4299.909,4304.624"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2579","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These are, you know, things that\npeople do, because it gives them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4305.386,4308.82"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2580","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"personal fulfillment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4308.9,4309.962"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2581","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, so I think that there are good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4311.406,4314.813"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2582","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"answers to the question of why do\npeople do this for free?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4314.933,4318.731"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is that is that is the future of\nopen source beholden to people's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4320.945,4324.513"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"altruism?\nLike, is, is the limit of open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4324.613,4328.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"source, the limit of people's\naltruism, do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4328.068,4329.914"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4331.242,4331.823"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, it's, it's, you know, if","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4331.843,4335.831"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I were able to predict the future\nthat well, then I would be, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4335.912,4339.764"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2589","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would be very wealthy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4339.804,4340.867"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2590","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I would be, I would be like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4341.408,4343.132"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rich, Richard Branson on my own\nisland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4343.232,4345.346"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We probably wouldn't have been\nworking for so many failed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4345.82,4348.368"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2593","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"startups, I guess, if you could.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4348.408,4349.853"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2594","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You You know, startups fail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4349.853,4352.645"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, you know, I taught startup\ncreation kinds of things at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4352.765,4359.102"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Carnegie Mellon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4359.162,4359.964"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And every now and then one of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4360.025,4361.95"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"companies goes beyond the campus\nand starts their own business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4362.01,4366.807"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2599","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it's, there are a lot of\nbarriers to success.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4367.208,4370.355"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2600","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's not until you're out\nthere doing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4372.183,4373.967"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I work these days with Berkeley's\naccelerator called Skydeck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4375.069,4379.141"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they, they had like 1000\napplicants for 18 places, or, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4379.822,4382.968"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, some key, wildly selective\nthing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4383.049,4390.868"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, and then we meet these\ncompanies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4391.309,4393.573"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, a few of them make\nit, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4393.693,4398.206"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because everything falls into\nplace at the right time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4398.727,4402.074"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But most of them, most of them\nstruggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4402.495,4404.844"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's true of startups.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4404.884,4406.187"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's been true as long as the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4407.109,4410.015"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"field has existed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4410.06,4410.987"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mm hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4411.642,4412.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4412.828,4413.028"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, this has been a wonderful\nway to spend an afternoon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4415.443,4419.411"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I really appreciate your time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4419.472,4421.295"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks for sharing your thoughts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4421.46,4422.763"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks for sharing your memories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4423.185,4424.328"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and, you know, this, this, as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4425.19,4427.041"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we construct this great kind of\noral history of open source.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4427.081,4430.31"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's just been wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4430.691,4431.954"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm very grateful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4432.02,4432.926"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2621","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, it's been it's been my\npleasure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4433.962,4435.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2622","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it forced me to recollect some\nof these things and to dig some of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4435.526,4439.702"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2623","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these names out of the far reaches\nof my memory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4439.742,4442.773"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2624","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's definitely good to have it\ndown there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4444.464,4447.21"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2625","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'll want to see the the final\nversion of it and, and perhaps","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4447.31,4453.29"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2626","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"post on my LinkedIn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4454.011,4455.235"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2627","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4456.346,4456.688"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2628","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Where, where this is all gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4457.501,4459.324"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/transcript/43891/annotation/2629","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, so that's great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=4459.344,4461.448"}]},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Index [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2630","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony's educational background","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=135.0,452.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2631","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony recounts his educational journey from Coral Gables, Florida, to California. Two key takeaways from his graduate school experience were writing interactive programs and architecting large software systems.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=135.0,452.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2632","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What got Tony initially started?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=452.0,770.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2633","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony's affinity for arithmetic and mathematics since childhood led him to pursue a major in math due to its natural appeal and potential for a successful career. During his doctoral studies, his dissertation involved both extensive writing and the development of a large program, totaling over 10,000 lines of code.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=452.0,770.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2634","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AI Dissertation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=770.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2635","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony discusses his work on developing a bridge-playing program, which involved utilizing rule-based technology to evaluate cards, interpret bids, and make final contract decisions. He later collaborated with someone to create the \"Goran Bridgemaster,\" a device intended to play the hand of bridge.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=770.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2636","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First encounter in the open-source space","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=942.0,1528.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2637","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony describes the evolution of their involvement with software engineering and the impact of Unix and the BSD license. Additionally, he discusses the widespread adoption of the Berkeley version of Unix in academia due to its affordability and the development of tools like the VI editor by Bill Joy.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=942.0,1528.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2638","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony's IDE company-  Software Through Pictures","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1528.0,2120.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2639","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony highlights the significance of NATO-sponsored conferences that led to the establishment of software engineering as a discipline. He discusses his involvement in creating an interactive development environment (IDE) called Software Through Pictures, which was one of the early products to incorporate open source software.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=1528.0,2120.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2640","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"Open source software\" being talked about for the first time","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2120.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2641","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony explains that the term \"open source\" gained prominence after the open source initiative was formed and the Apache agreement with IBM was made. He mentions their transition to working with Java Enterprise Edition and joining Bluestone Software, a company based in South Jersey, known for its Java software.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2120.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2642","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Journey through shifting perceptions","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2612.0,3508.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2643","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony talks about his interaction with Microsoft's CEO at the time, who expressed negative views on open source. He highlights the emergence of open source projects like MySQL and Linux, as well as conferences focused on commercial adoption of open source.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=2612.0,3508.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2644","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What sparked Tony's interest in open-source?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3508.0,4233.0"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260/index/81380/annotation/2645","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tony discusses the Business Readiness Rating initiative launched in 2005 by SpikeSource, with participation from Kim Polese (former product manager for Java at Sun), Intel, O'Reilly, and himself.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/93164/file/189260#t=3508.0,4233.0"}]}]}]}