{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4q7qn60q99/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Larry Augustin interview with FOSSDA"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/204/original/FOSSDA%285%29.jpg?1666825306","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Larry Augustin","Elisabetta Mori"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2024-04-16"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Larry Augustin interviewed by Elisabetta Mori on April 16th 2024"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MPEG-4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Sourceforge","Stanford","VA Research","VA Linux","Open Source","SugarCRM"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["TheirStory"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Larry Augustin interviewed by Elisabetta Mori on April 16th 2024"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Free Open Source Stories Digital Archive"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Free Open Source Stories Digital Archive"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/204/original/FOSSDA%285%29.jpg?1666825306","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/239/580/small/open-uri20240418-1402612-ttkihj_1713480340.jpg?1713465944","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20240418-1402612-ttkihj.mp4"]},"duration":6139.655,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/239/580/small/open-uri20240418-1402612-ttkihj_1713480340.jpg?1713465944","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-fossda.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/239/580/original/open-uri20240418-1402612-ttkihj.mp4?1713465937","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6139.655,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["TheirStory Transcript (Paragraphs with Speakers) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e FOSSDA, the Free and Open Source Stories Digital Archive Foundation. It's the 16th of April 2024 and I am Elisabetta Moeri, an historian of computing currently based in Italy and an oral history interview with FOSSDA. Today I'll be talking to Larry Augustin. Larry Augustin is an entrepreneur, angel investor and advisor to technology companies. He He was the founder of VA Research that became VA Linux, SourceForge. He was part of the team who who coined the term Open Software. He was CEO of SugarCRM and the Vice President for Applications and and Web Services. We are recording on the story.io and I am in Livorno, Tuscany, Italy, and Larry is in his home in Los Altos, California. So thank you and welcome, Larry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=0.26,58.975"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you, Elisabetta. Happy to be here. Happy to do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=60.344,63.874"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, so let's start from the beginning. So where and when were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=64.541,69.895"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I was born 1962 in Dayton, Ohio, the middle of the country in the US. My father was in the Air Force and we had settled in Dayton and ended up growing up there. My mother's side of the family were farmers and had a farm in the east coast of the US, New Hampshire. And I spent a lot of times there. In fact, if you look at sort of my early life, the time I spent in summers working on the farm was part of what helped me become an engineer. My dad was an electrical engineer and so I sort of followed in his footsteps. That was my, you know, sort of goal a whole life was to follow in his footsteps and also be an electrical engineer. But I spent the summers working on the family farm in New Hampshire, you know, baling hay, doing, you know, everything around the place. And I developed this tendency to just fix things. It's part of what drove me to be an engineer. When I often say, when you're out in the field and the tractor breaks, there's nobody to call. You know, we didn't have cell phones, there was no one there. You had to just fix things yourself. And so my whole life, that's how I kind of approach things, which is just learn to do whatever needs to be done and be hands-on and fix things. And what about your mom? What did she do? My mom is a nurse. She grew up on the farm and then she was able to go to nursing school and she became a nurse. And then, you know, after I came along, she retired from that and was a full-time mom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=71.262,191.375"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And who were the important influences on you in your early life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=193.264,197.395"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, great question. You know, obviously my parents. I mean, I had just huge respects there, wanting to follow in the footsteps of my dad in many ways. But early on in life, I would say I was lucky to have great teachers early in school, grade school and elementary, who really, I guess, influenced me in the value of education, but in all sorts of different disciplines, whether it was mathematics or science. And, you know, I was lucky to have great teachers who helped me there. And, you know, some of that certainly by random. I was lucky. And I was also lucky in that Dayton, Ohio, is home to something called the Ham Fest, which I don't know if a lot of people know, but it is a gathering of ham radio operators that happens every year. But beyond that sort of just ham radio operators, it's really about people who tinker with electronics. And so I was lucky to have this exposure early on that this interesting thing was happening and I wanted to learn. And so I was a kid who always was experimenting with sort of basic electronics. I had the little kits as a kid where you would build the radio from scratch or you would wire together a little electronic circuits. And I was always kind of tinkering or doing or building something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=198.882,312.392"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Which schools did you attend? And is there any, you know, an event or episode that shaped you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=314.183,320.656"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, wow. So, you know, I went through the sort of public school system growing up in Ohio. I went to high school, a little place called Stebbins High School. I'm not sure I would say Stebbins is famous for just about anything. It was just a great place to grow up and be a kid. And from there, my mother had always had this dream that I grew up Catholic and my family was Catholic and that her son should go to the University of Notre Dame. And I applied. And to be honest, to this day, I'm not sure how I got in. I was a good student, not the best, but a good student. And if I look today, you know, the students that apply to universities today are absolutely amazing. I don't know. I was far from absolutely amazing. And I got in. So I ended up going to college at Notre Dame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=322.183,392.176"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And what was the subject?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=393.285,394.551"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that's where I followed my dad's footsteps and I went into electrical engineering. And that's really where I sort of spent my first time, sort of more hands-on with computers. There was one thing in my high school that was interesting. There was a course I took as I began to try and understand electronics and computers, but more a course at this time. And gosh, you look back and you realize how far the world has come. That my first sort of exposure to doing anything with programming was punched cards with cobalt. And as a high school student, I was able to take a course where we didn't even have a punch card machine. We had these big coding forms, big ledger sheets of paper, 11 by 17 pieces of paper with lines on them. And there were 80 columns on a punch card. And you literally wrote in clean print across these sheets of paper. And we would send them in. So I'd have to write my program out by hand on a piece of paper. You'd send it in. People would punch those into the punch card machines. You would get back decks of cards. And then you sorted the cards into a program. And then you sent the cards in to run. So we think today about fast turn and programming and developing code. The productivity in that sense of lines of code was pretty low. It was, you know, you spent a day writing forms. You sent it in. You got punched cards back. I mean, it took a week to turn around. And if you made one change, a comma in a different place, one different line, it was a week to make a minor change. So you had to get that right. You had to make sure that was sort of perfect when it went in because the turnaround was very slow. Then when I got to college, we began to discover real programmable machines, microcontrollers. At the time, there were new machines like the TRS-80. And eventually by the time I graduated, the IBM PC and the Apple machines had come out. But that was my earliest exposure, was writing COBOL programs, long form.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=395.943,575.587"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So you go to Notre Dame, 1980, 1984. And then in 1984, you get the fellowship from Bell Labs to go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=577.29,587.875"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So Notre Dame was a great, great place to me. I had an opportunity to experience a lot of different opportunities, ranging from sort of those initial exposures to real sort of programmable machines, microcontrollers, learning that. I was lucky enough to be part of a group that created the first personal computer lab there for the grant from IBM. I was lucky enough to be able to work on a, we took an IBM PC and modified it to run IBM 370 code. So IBM 370 being being the sort of de facto standard of large scale computing from the mainframe world. This was a time when there were these two, I would say two worlds of computing that were colliding. The world of the, maybe that COBOL world, if you will, big mainframe machines, a slow turnaround, hugely powerful, but you could see the microprocessor world coming. You know, we had the 8080, we had the IBM PC. And I was lucky enough to be part of a project that re-micro-coded the mineral to 68,000. My part was working on a cache memory system, and we built the first IBM 370 inside a IBM PC. So I had an opportunity to work on some really, really great computing things there. And then following, as I graduated there, Bell Labs had this fantastic program where they would recruit students out of college with no experience. And it's interesting, I interesting, I watch today, students coming out of college and some of these programs don't exist anymore. I anymore. I think we need more of those. I think I was a beneficiary of companies that did those things when did those things when I graduated. They would recruit students out of college and to work at Bell Labs at the time, you had to have a minimum of a master's degree. I didn't have a master's degree, but they also had identified that there weren't enough people with master's degrees. And so they would recruit kids right out of their undergraduate, they would bring them in, they'd give them an opportunity to work for a year, and then they would send them off to school to get their master's, get advanced degrees. Fabulous, fabulous program. I was lucky enough to get accepted into that. And I went from South Bend, Indiana, Notre Dame, to Holmdel, New Jersey, the home of the transistor, and Bell Labs, the place where the Big Bang was discovered, and I got an opportunity to just learn more. And as part of that program, they sent me to Stanford University to get my master's degree in electrical engineering. Think heavily, though, computing. Back then, computer science, by the way, was kind of this... When I went to Notre Dame, there was not a computer science department, put put it that way. It was electrical engineering, and computing was an offshoot. So if you think about, in other places, the, you know, computer science being an offshoot of mathematics, for example, those were the years when those sorts of departments were new, in some sense, thinking of computing as a separate thing. But I was... If you are a young, excited engineer who loves building things, and loves electronics, and is excited about what you've been able to do with computers, and you get the opportunity to go to Silicon Valley and Stanford in 1985, it's just a magical place, and you stay. So I spent a couple of years in New Jersey with Bell Labs, Labs, but ultimately, I was drawn back to, you know, that world of computing in the early years, in the mid-80s, in Silicon Valley. And after a year or two at Bell Labs, I ended up back at Stanford for my PhD.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=587.98,916.864"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So in 1987, you moved back to Stanford, and what was your PhD about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=916.884,923.863"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Electrical engineering. And I've stayed in that, although, I will say, at this point, getting a lot harder to distinguish what I was doing from computer science. It was a lot less electrical, and a lot more computer science. I did blend the two together. I worked on verifying, creating ways to verify circuit designs. At the time, the world of electronic design automation was new and exciting, and we were developing software that helped people build electronics. There was this world that I spent much of my time there called hardware description languages, HDLs. That is a programming language for describing circuits, circuit design hardware. And I worked on verifying timing properties of circuits described in hardware description languages. And that's where I ultimately developed my thesis on validating, both through simulation and formal logic, that a circuit held certain timing properties.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=924.725,1017.497"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, when did you get involved with Linux? What was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1019.825,1025.777"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that we did in those early days in electronic design automation, most of the work was done at universities. So Stanford, we collaborated and used a lot of tools of tools that were written by the University of California, Berkeley, UC Berkeley. All of that software was available for sharing on this thing, in hindsight, the internet. But the internet at the time was a collection mostly of universities and a few research labs that were able to share and distribute software. And everything that I tended to work with was software that was available for free. I mentioned earlier that I'm kind of one of these people that just dives in and sees things and wants to fix things. I had ended up, for my research group at Stanford, doing a lot of system administration work. Just, again, administration work. Just, again, I see things that need to be done. I have a tendency to just kind of dive in and do it. And I didn't of dive in and do it. And I didn't know anything about the things at the time. I'd been lucky enough to spend my time at Bell Labs, been lucky enough to spend my time at Bell Labs, where I had taken a few courses in Unix, and I had the opportunity to dive in and really to dive in and really play with some interesting Unix machines. But out at Stanford, we used, at the time, Sun workstations for most of our work. And whenever out at Stanford, we used, at the time, Sun workstations for most of our work. And whenever we'd get a Sun workstation, one of the things that I would help with and did was to take that machine and install all the software that we used to do our research. Primarily electronic design automation tools, many of them, as I said, were developed and electronic design automation tools, many of them, as I said, were developed and just given away for free by other universities. I recall carrying around with me, at the time, was a hard disk drive. And now we would look at it as kind of a little tiny USB thumb drive. But when I carried it around, it was big. And I would plug that in and essentially upload all of this free software onto this commercial machine. And it wasn't because we couldn't afford or get any software we wanted as a research team at Stanford. We had access to essentially anything we wanted to access to commercially. We could get that. But the software that we used was easier to work with, was better, was available for free. And that's where I really learned that a community of people working together with the goal of producing great software was often producing things of producing great software was often producing things that were better than what was available commercially. And so that's where I began to learn that I could see that difference from early on. For example, early on, we did much of our work in C. And the Sun machine always came with the C And the Sun machine always came with the C compiler. C compiler was part of Unix. But Richard Stallman over at the Free Software Foundation at MIT had started building a C compiler, GNU C, which was vastly superior to what came with the machines commercially. And so we would install it and use that. And again, lucky enough to be at Stanford, the gentleman in the office across the hall from me, Michael Tiemann, was one of the core contributors to GNU C, in particular C++. And we were lucky enough to be able to sort of see that evolve and develop quickly and be superior to what was available commercially. And so that's where I really learned that difference. From early on, though, all that work was done on these powerful Sun workstations, which were expensive. And I had this dream of being able to use Unix and work from home. That would have been fantastic. So I began looking around at ways to do that. And it turns out there were several people that had begun releasing variants of Unix that ran on the IBM PC. You're sort of at the time where the Intel processors had reached the point with the release of the 386, where the processor was powerful enough to run a real Unix virtual machine. And code from a variety of sources, it was the core of Unix, had begun to be available. And I had played around with some other things. There were some Unix variants that were commercially available, but to be honest, they were slow and clunky. So I began trying ones off the internet, as I did with any software. And I compared two systems at the time. So one was releases of the Berkeley Unix system, VSD, that had been released for PC for the 386. And the other was the system that this student in Finland, Linus Tormalds, had begun to put together, and that various people had bundled up systems around it. And I remember downloading and installing my first version of Linux Slackware. I want to say it took 40 to 50, 1.44 megabyte floppy disks to copy and install a Linux distribution at the time. And in hindsight, looking back, it wasn't a very big system, but we weren't running around with a lot of storage in space either. And managing your collection of floppy disks was part of the challenge. But it was interesting. I had enough computer science background. I had done in-depth operating system understanding and work that I understood that the architecture of the Berkeley system was, I don't know if the right word is maybe a little bit cleaner, maybe a little bit more formal, a little bit more mature. However, Linus's system was evolving much faster. And I played with both systems. The Linux machine was super fast. And I looked at the, at the time, Usenet newsgroups was a big part of how people communicated. I looked at the traffic and usage and the pace of development. And I said, you know, there are more sophisticated operating system features that the Berkeley Unix has that Linux does not have today. But the pace of development, this path is going to cross. And so I built a home workstation running on a 386 PC running Linux and brought all of my software over that I used that I had gotten off the internet and was now able to pursue my research working from home. Other people saw what I had put together. I said, that is, that is really cool. I want one of those too. A business is born. I want I want to say this was, at this point, we have reached the early 90s. I think around 93 was when I looked at this and said, this was shortly after I had finished my PhD, I defended my thesis. I was working as a research staff at Stanford. And I realized I could have, one person characterized it to me as a lemonade stand as a kid. But I started a side business of selling people pre-configured Linux workstations. And I went from sort of friends and family to, there was this new thing that had developed on the internet called the World Wide Web. You could create, there was a new called the World Wide Web. You could create, there was a new brand new thing called a web browser. You could create a visual UI. By the way, this is all pre-CSS. Pre-JavaScript. You had HTML with some basic structuring tags. And I put up a web page. A web page A web page offering Linux workstations. And it was kind of odd. At this time, as I said, the web was new. Intel had discovered the web and Intel had a website. And on their website, they listed other companies. web and Intel had a website. And on their website, they listed other companies. They listed companies selling Intel-based computers. And I think they had five companies listed. And I think they had five companies selling Intel-based computers. And I think they had five companies listed on the Intel website that were selling Intel computers, Intel-based computers on the internet. They were Dell, Compaq, Gateway, and me. And I think there was one other. I'm not sure who the other was. And talk about a surprise. Where does that come from? But I was in some excellent company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1028.548,1749.317"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e What was the name of the website?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1750.304,1751.63"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e So that was VA Research. Okay. So that is when VA Research was born. That's when VA Research was born.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1752.644,1760.63"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And what's the name? VA?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1761.14,1762.605"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, oh, oh, oh. So I had started doing this with my co-worker and friend, James Vera. And so we were trying to figure out what do we call this as we put it up there. And James and I were having this conversation. And we were inspired by Hewlett and Packard in the garage in Silicon Valley. So we had Vera and Augustin. But in hindsight, probably a terrible name. Everyone thinks the company was from Virginia. It was VA, the abbreviation. But that's what we ended up with. That's what we ended up with. And so we launched that business, I want to say around 93, we began doing this. People would send us a check. This is just an amazing way of bootstrapping. And to me, I always look for today, I love the entrepreneurial part of the world and people launching and building things. And we got people to send us checks for the computers they wanted, because we were selling a physical device. And to me, these things were hugely expensive. I mean, somewhere between $1,000 and $3,000. And I couldn't afford to buy the parts to send someone. Well, a system that had been put together. People sent us a check ahead of time. We would cash the check, go buy the parts, have an assembly party in the living room of my apartment and ship them out. And that was what the business was initially. And then sometimes we would get a little more sophisticated. We'd run up the bill on our credit cards and get a little bit of a better deal on parts sometime, be willing to buy ahead a little bit. But that's how we funded the business. That's the business. That's how we funded the business. I had been doing some consulting work for a company in the EDA space and struck a deal where I was able to work out of that space. In Menlo Park and struck a deal there and began working that sort of more full time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1766.442,1954.397"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So how did the company evolve?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1958.865,1962.234"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e And so we went through. So I eventually decided I am spending more time on this side hobby than I am doing my research job at Stanford. So I decided it was time to dive in and do that a full time. I was also inspired here by the fact that it's kind of what you do around a place like Silicon Valley and Stanford. You see other people doing this and you see people diving into this full time. So I dove into it full time. I looked for help there. At one point, I had found a company I was partnering with called Umax, a Taiwanese company. We worked out of Umax for a little while. Just whatever we could do to sort of fund and keep the business around. As I said, people would send us checks to fund the business. I got my first office, a little place called Pear Avenue in Mountain View. Coincidentally, now the Microsoft Silicon Valley building is where my office was in Mountain View with VA Linux. There was a, again, I have no idea. I have no idea sometimes why these things happen, but I was lucky enough to find office space. To be honest, I don't know why they were willing to sign a lease with a kid who was barely breaking even. I think it was a rental foreclosure and I got an office and fired up the business for real. We ran hand to mouth, was the business. Literally, a big part of the job was how do you juggle checks coming in from customers so that you could buy the parts to create the systems to send to those customers, balancing that. At the same time, I was very active with the Linux groups on the internet, staying close to that, watching the development of that, because all the software we used was software that was coming off the internet for free. I really had this vision, if you will. Dell had been very inspirational to me. If you look at the start of Dell Computers with Michael Dell and his dorm room at, I think it was UT Austin, assembling PCs. I was doing the same, except I was doing it in the Unix world. If you look, Dell is effectively a logistics company in many ways. That is, they bring together a lot of components to create what they create. We were doing the same, bringing together components to assemble the hardware, but we were doing a similar thing on the software side. I thought of what we were doing as extending the Dell model from not just Dell for hardware, but Dell for software. That is, we are going to assemble, package, configure, maintain, support the software side in a similar model. Our supply chain for software was the internet. At the time, it was all called free software. The business became about bringing the two of those together to create a traditional Unix workstation business in the line of Sun, but where the hardware was open Intel technology hardware, where we could bring together components from a variety of places. The software was open free software, where we could bring together software from a variety of places. The combination of that was really the vision and view of, at the time, VA research. We decided research was in the wrong connotation and Linux was beginning to get some reference and brand name, and it became VA Linux. As I was doing this, two of my friends from Stanford had raised venture funding. Two gentlemen by the name of Jerry Yang and David Filo. You may recall those names as their little company they had started was Yahoo. Dave and Jerry were both PhD students in EDA, Electronic Design Automation, at Stanford. They had started this little directory of the web on a machine under their desk in their office at Stanford. And Dave, Jerry, and I, and there was a fourth person, David Koo, had been considering ways that we could turn the things we were doing into businesses. We looked at the internet. We considered various ways you could turn the internet into commerce, create a business. At the same time, I was doing this Linux workstation idea. They were playing with this directory of the internet, and they had gotten Sequoia Capital to fund that. They said one day, said, Larry, you ought to meet the guys up at Sequoia, gentlemen by the name of Doug Leone, and see if there's a way you could take capital and grow what you're doing. I said, well, that sounds like a great idea. We've been living hand to mouth, trying to build this business, and all along trying to do interesting things with the growth of Linux and development through software. They introduced me to Doug Leone over at Sequoia Capital. I went up to Sequoia, had my first pitch. In hindsight, I have no idea why Doug continued to talk to me. He knew more about entrepreneurs than I knew about anything. And it was a fantastic first conversation, but all of their checks said, oh, this Linux stuff, I don't know. It's kind of a toy. We really like you, Larry, but we're not ready to invest something there. And I said, that's fine. I didn't know anybody else. I knew nothing about venture capital. I really had no idea what I was doing. But every few months, I would send Doug an email update with how the business was going and what was happening in the world of Linux. And it was interesting because Doug is an incredibly smart gentleman. And he did a little bit of the same things when I looked at Berkeley Unix versus Linux. I ultimately made the decision that the acceleration path of Linux is higher. Doug had done certain kind of asking and questions around. And he had kept hearing, no, Linux is kind of a toy. But he was watching things develop. And I kept sending him updates. And Forbes magazine had figured this out. And they put Linus Torvalds on the cover. And it was kind of a pivotal moment. I had sent this to Doug. And Doug, and by the way, this was also shortly after Red Hat Software and Bob Young had gotten funded. Eric Trone, Bob Young, that whole team, great, great people had gotten funded. And Sequoia looked over. And I think it was literally something to the phrase of, Larry, we don't quite know what's going on here, but we need to do something in this Linux space because something is happening there. And you're the only guy we know. Which, if you know Doug, is just a fantastic endorsement, if you will. Incredible person. And they showed up. And I took the first outside investment. And at the same time, I was really about advancing the state of the world of free software and what you could and what you could do with Linux. I had been tracking down contacts at Intel for years. And Intel felt something was going on there as well. So Intel joined the Series A to invest in us with the idea that this could be a part of the market in which they were not a major player, but now they could begin to move into the server workstation world with Unix and Linux. And so that effectively moved us from a small business to, okay, now how do we build a big business? That was a big step. That was a big step. I would be remiss to not point out just, again, how lucky we were to be in the right place at the right time with people around Silicon Valley and the community of people that was building the software. I hired a gentleman, Leonard Zubkoff, as our CTO, who was one of the... Leonard ultimately did the first multiprocessor kernel work developing Linux. He did significant work on other parts of the system. We were always contributing back or looking for ways to be part of the help of that community. At one time, interestingly, much of the software that we developed was built by Richard Stallman's Free Software Foundation. At one time, the machine that was, Richard Stallman's Free Software Foundation. At one time, the machine that was, in fact, the machine on the internet distributing that software on the internet distributing that software sat in the back of our office. It was a MIT.edu internet address, but the actual server was in the back of our office because we donated that that to the Free Software Foundation to distribute software. And you think today about the cloud. In the late 90s, the cloud was a smaller machine with just a lot of disk drives sitting under somebody's desk in the back of an office in Mount V, if you will. And that was common in those days. So that began sort of the launch of how do we turn this into a larger business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=1963.461,2780.436"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So what year was this when you finally... Uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=2782.466,2785.5"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e that was probably 1997. And we grew the business very rapidly from that point. We went public in 99. So it was at most two years from first funding to IPO. And the world of Linux was just on fire then. I remember just on fire then. I remember we helped organize some of the first large-scale Linux events in Silicon Valley. At some point, you don't quite realize the scale of the internet at the time, nowhere near what it is today. And it wasn't always obvious how many people were out there. You could watch traffic on Usenet groups. We could traffic on Usenet groups. We could share code and contribute to the community. And we were the first large traffic on Usenet groups. We could share code and contribute. But you didn't always quite realize the scale. And we organized an event in Silicon Valley called the Future of Linux, where I was able to get people from Intel and from different groups. Companies like Cisco would just give us the space because they wanted to support local user groups. And we ran this event. We called it the Future of Linux. It was the first... I'll say prior to that, the Linux user group meeting was a dozen people in a fast food restaurant in Silicon Valley. But we promoted this. And we had over a thousand people show up, standing room only. We completely overwhelmed the conference facilities that we had been able to beg, borrow, and get donated. And again, that was another point at which people like Sequoia Capital began to realize there's some momentum here. And the scale is bigger than you may realize. I think a lot of people point to that event as a turning point. And I'll say the recognition by many people around Silicon Valley and that ecosystem that there was something here. I think it would be pretentious for anyone to say we knew what it was in that sense. But just the number of people that would come together, it was fantastic. So there was an event like that. As this was developing, more and more of us were I think struggling a little bit with a divide in the community between why we were building software in an open model like this on the internet. If you listen to my story, I was using software that was freely available because it was better. To me, that was always the model. I used the GNU C compiler because it was better than the C compilers that came from Sun. The same was similar for user interface tools. Linux was a free operating system. There were commercial Unix systems that were available, but the fact is Linux were available, but the fact is Linux is better for the PC than the commercial systems. And that had always been my philosophy. This is a philosophy that's very different from the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman's motivation. It had been very, you know, driven by the notion that software is something that should be freely available to everyone. And he had developed the GNU model and the GNU licensing model that was designed to encourage that. But this split was developing and was, I think, licensing model that was designed to encourage that. But this split was developing and was, I think, exacerbated by groups of us that had been building businesses around free software. And if you look at the concept of I am selling you something that's free, it's kind of an odd concept. It takes people a moment to get their heads around this concept. And the people a moment to get their heads around this concept. And the gentleman by the name of Eric Raymond, just a great thought leader, Eric is, had written a paper called The Cathedral and the Bazaar, where Eric described this idea of software built in an open model, in an open way where everyone could see what was happening, versus software built in a closed way. And he had written a paper called The Cathedral and the Bazaar, where Eric described this idea of software built in a closed, you know, in his world, the cathedral this idea of software built in a closed, you know, in his world, the cathedral model. And this really resonated with me, because I think Eric had finally captured what many of us had been thinking or trying to understand. But as Eric is, he's just sort of brilliant at coalescing ideas. He had written it down well and articulated it well. And some of it came together for me. I'll tell you a very small anecdote here. When I was building VA Research and then VA Linux, we were using, I had chosen QuickBooks as our accounting software. At the time, QuickBooks was very new, but still small business accounting software, you have to have something. I had chosen QuickBooks. I had found a bug in QuickBooks. And for the old time DOS programmers and geeks, this bug was the system would crash when I would try and print. And this happened because, this happened whenever I tried to print to a network attached printer. And it turns out that network printers could have names longer than 11 characters. And experimenting with this crash, I discovered that if the name of the printer was 11 characters left, everything worked. And if it was longer than 11 characters, it crashed. And if you are a developer, you could see what was happening. There was a buffer of 11 characters, which by the way, is exactly the same number of characters of a file name in DOS, which is where it came from. And printers were attached to file names. So without being too technical here, someone had a piece of code that had an 11 character buffer for the name. And when it was longer than 11 characters, it ran off the end of this and it crashed the program. I could it crashed the program. I could see this in my head. And I know this is not necessarily a mission critical story, but I critical story, but I called up into it. I called up tech support. I thought to myself, this is great. I can contribute can contribute and tell them what to look for. I could not get any attention. I could not get anyone to care. I could crash their software very easily. And I could imagine the fix in my head as a programmer, and I could not get anyone to care. And all I could think was, if I had the source code, I could fix this. Now, to me, that little experience really crystallized what we had been doing and what people like Eric had begun to write about, which is this notion that you empower the person, the user, with access. You enable them. Whether I could have fixed that code in my case, you know, I like to think I could have fixed the code. But if I had had access, maybe I could have hired someone to fix the code. Or if it had been open, I could have contributed a fix. But none of that was possible because the software was built in a cathedral, and it was built in a black box, and it was hidden, and there was nothing you could do about that. And ultimately, Eric's book had gotten the attention of Netscape Software and Mark Andreessen at the time, and they had invited Eric to come out to Silicon Valley, and I hosted Eric for a bit when he came out. He came by the office, and I don't think we had ever met face-to-face before that. It's interesting, you know, many of these relationships all developed online. And we convened a meeting at our offices in Mountain View where we were discussing this, and Eric was driving the idea that we should rebrand. We should push the, we need to emphasize the notion that what we care about is creating great software. We're not making a religious statement. We're not making a political statement. We are simply saying we want to create great software, and we have discovered a model that we believe creates better software. Maybe not in all cases, but certainly from our observation, in a lot of cases. And we need to emphasize that. And so, we held a meeting at my office in Pear Avenue. We got Linus on the phone, and ultimately, the idea was we're going to brand this open source, because the openness of the source code was what was important. We're going to Bruce Perens, at the time, the head of the Debian project, had created a set of definitions for software that could be part of Debian. And we realized the world here needed to separate the notion notion of software in which the source code is available from free software, and we coined the term open source to do that. And we all agreed to promote and develop this, and that became the genesis for the term open source. And this was in 1998? I think it was 1998. I will tell you I'm not as good with the years and the dates as I should be, so I encourage anyone listening to this to just go to the opensource.org website, and it's well documented there, and they have made sure the dates are correct. How's that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=2785.5,3570.086"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So, during these years, I would like to ask you a couple of things. Two things are personal. Yes. First, when was your first encounter with Linus Torvalds? Oh, you know, excellent question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3570.948,3591.691"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't have a great recollection of the first meeting. I'm sure I was so in awe that I just was probably standing stunned. I believe it was in the back of a fast food restaurant at a local Linux user group after he had moved. You know, many of this happened remotely, and then Linus moved to Silicon Valley in the Bay Area, and I believe it was the back of a fast food restaurant at a small Linux user group meeting. I was always in awe of just fantastic talent that came into this community. When it comes to coding and development, I'm more of a sysadmin hack. I get some of these things, and I can pull things together and such, but the ability of people like Linus, my CTO and VA gentleman, and the talent that comes together is just incredible, and the depth is incredible there. So, we had small Linux user group meetings around the Valley, and then I was eventually sort of able to develop a friendship there and pull Linus into some of those events like that Future of Linux event that I talked about. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3600.863,3725.051"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So, we're going to just talk briefly about your personal life. So, when did you get married and when your daughter was born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3725.922,3735.285"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So, yes, during this, I had met my wife at Stanford, Alice, and we were married in, I want to say, 96, and our daughter was born a year later, Andrea, and Alice had joined me at VA Research in the early days and was our first salesperson. So, the success of the business, very much driven by her on the phone with customers, talking with customers and helping us create business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3735.305,3789.576"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e You met at Stanford, what was she studying or researching?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3790.762,3794.148"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e So, she had gone to San Francisco State and was working in a staff position at Stanford in our research lab, what we've had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3794.268,3804.995"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So, we are like 1997, 1998. Yes. Then we arrived to 1999, which is important. The end of 1999 is important for two reasons. One is SourceForge, we're talking about number 1999, and the second one is VA Linux. But if you remember, it's not important, when did you change the name from VA Research to VA Linux, if you remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3806.723,3837.074"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't remember exactly the date, but it was the, part of it was the, it may have been in part the funding. And then as we were thinking about branding coming into the IPO, the term research, just people didn't quite understand what we did. So, we put Linux in the name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3838.162,3865.8"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So, yes. So, the two main things that happened in 1999, the end of 1999, November, SourceForge and September IPO.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3866.321,3877.729"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. SourceForge, let me tell you a little bit about SourceForge. So, I mentioned before that we would do things such as host a machine for the Free Software Foundation. And my vision of a software supply chain, if you will, where the software created for free on the internet, openly on the internet, was our supply chain that we would build together into systems. I wanted to enable that. And we wanted to create and enable more people to do that and make it easier. So, we regularly hosted websites and software distribution FTP sites for free free software, open source, now open source projects. That was common. At one point, we were, I believe, hosting upwards of 20 major projects like this. And we observed that the people running these projects all had a set of common needs. You know, they wanted a website, but they wanted FTP distribution, and they wanted a mailing list. Sometimes they wanted discussion forums. They wanted to host FAQs. There was a new, I would say, somewhat new concept that was becoming more common among the groups, which was source code repositories. Now people just, you know, GitHub. And we didn't have Git at the time. We had a few different revision control systems, but most free software was not built revision control, but people were starting to say, well, gee, you don't want to have a CDS or similar revision control system site. Well, at the same time, there was a project underway to recreate the history of Linux, the history of the Linux source code. Again, most people at the time starting out with a project didn't start out with revision control. Now it's just a given. You just do it. And Linux had never done revision control. He released, you know, he would release a new version of Linux a new version of Linux out on the internet, and he didn't necessarily keep old versions. That's, That's, you know, I released it on the internet. I moved on, create a new version. And so, new version. And so, new version. And so, new version. And so, I was observing that we were at a, we were at risk of losing information that could become important to us as we built software. Another personal anecdote, I had discovered at this time a bug in a piece of software on the Linux system, the bash shell, which is the command line interpreter. And I went to look for the source code to see if I could fix the bug, and actually couldn't find the source code. Because the version I was running was two releases behind, and none of the distribution sites kept the old releases. So, kind of all of these things were coming together at the same time. So, I did a little math calculation. And at the time, it's a pretty good ability to look and understand how much source code was released, open source and free software on the internet every year. And I realized, if you took all of that code and you kept it permanently, it almost tracked to the size of a large disk drive that you could buy at a very modest price. And so, I realized, there's no, there's not, you don't need to delete anything ever again for source code. So, I wanted to begin to archive the history of source code. And we had acquired at VA Linux, we had begun to acquire a set of internet sites that supported free software and similar development. And one of those sites was a site called Fresh Meat. Odd name, but Fresh Meat was the de facto announcement site at the time. So, all free software, that open source software that was released, was announced on Fresh Meat. And I came up with this vision, which was, we need to archive all of that. So, my vision was to connect Fresh Meat to an archive site, and I called it cold storage. So, the idea was to put all Fresh Meat in cold storage and keep it forever. Because we did not want to lose our history, we wanted to understand how and why things had been built. So, I began this archive project. And the team at VA Linux that I gave this job to, actually, actually, it was kind of a side project, if you will, for them, was also the team that, in IT, that was hosting, helping projects host and build these internet sites. But if you go back, we famously, we love doing t-shirts for everything. It's a developer Silicon Valley thing, I guess. But I have these famously, these cold storage t-shirts, we launched this project. And that team looked at that idea, and they said, well, that's nice, Larry, but we spend a lot of our time helping people build these sites. So, we want to bring those ideas together. And they brought those ideas together and ultimately turned that into, let's not just store an archive, but let's make it easy for people to build and launch. Cold storage turned out to be a difficult internet name, and they came up with SourceForge. And we launched SourceForge as the first collaborative development system for devs on the internet. And our ideas, we wanted to enable everybody. If you wanted to build an open source project, we wanted to give you the infrastructure to do it. We had even solicited Intel to provide servers to sit behind this so that people could compile and build on the back end. We had a great vision there. And so, we were very excited to be able to able to offer that to the community when we launched it. That's a little bit of the history behind SourceForge. And then on the 9th of December, 1999, there was the IPO. Yes, yes. Our business, so the original business around VA Linux had been built around the sort of Sun workstation concept. As the internet had grown, Linux and open source software were becoming the de facto software to use to build the internet. That placed us at a key junction point in the development of internet technology. And our business had become all about making high performance, easy to use systems at a reasonable cost available to people who wanted to build out and host internet sites. That had become the most significant part of the market. And it was growing rapidly, rapidly at the time. And that led us to grow a very significant business. We were doing about 60 million in revenue at the time. And we decided to go public. Today, you'd wait a little bit longer, I think. But then, there were smaller public companies. And public companies. And we were right at the forefront of that. So, we set out to define that as the business. And we went public December 1999. that as the business. And we went public December 1999. And ultimately, that became the largest first day gain ever in an IPO. We priced the IPO, and I believe it was $30 a share. And the first opening trade was at $299 a share, as there was just huge demand. As part of that, we also did what I think was also the first ever large-scale community involvement in an IPO. There was a concept that I began developing. I had hired a team of people at VA Linux to do what we call community marketing. This is outreach to Linux users groups, outreach to developers, people working on the Linux kernel. And we assembled a list of core contributors to Linux and open source. And we included them in the IPO, gave them the opportunity to get in. And hopefully, let them make some money for all their hard-earned work off of that. And to this day, I still get people from those days telling me that that made a difference for them, which is just hugely gratifying for me. But we did this in a large scale. And the bankers, to be honest, at first, weren't really quite sure how to do this. So we had to come up with a lot of ideas. And the banking team had to be invented in order for us to have several thousand people from all over the world participate, many of whom were just their name was in the Linux kernel. And they were a contributor. And we wanted to try and help them or reward them. So we wanted to try and help them or reward them. So we did that. How many people were employed by you at the time? I want to say at the IPO time, the company was still relatively small. I will say 250 people, ultimately ultimately growing to about 800 people over the course of the next two years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=3878.149,4638.007"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And in 2000, Word Magazine named you to their list of the top 50 CEOs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=4640.72,4643.605"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yes. You know, learning on the job was a lot of that. I just had some fantastic people around people around me and fantastic investors in Sequoia Capital. And I was able to get a lot of people involved. And I was able to get a lot of people involved. And fantastic investors in Sequoia Capital, fantastic mentors who helped the company and joined around the board from people like Doug Leonio at Sequoia. Carol Bartz was a great mentor for me on the board. Carol had run marketing at Sun. And at the time, she sat on our board. I believe she was the CEO of Autodesk. Later, interestingly, to sort of bring some things full circle, she became the CEO of Yahoo for a while. But just, you know, fantastic, fantastic people all around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=4649.12,4722.896"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So what happened between the 2000 and the year 2002 when you left?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=4725.505,4729.854"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So, so our business had been heavily defined by companies, the dot com world at that time. And and And and the business was growing very, very rapidly. And that was all going well until the dot com crash, if you will. The the companies that we were selling to were a who's who of dot coms. You know, companies like Pets.com come up as a sort of poster child here. But over the course of about six months, many of our customers either went out of business or out of business or just stopped, stopped by. And it was a big crash for us in that space. And ultimately, we restructured the company to focus around SourceForge and the software business and less about Internet servers. And we did we did many innovative things in the Internet Service Society. We built the first high density rack mount servers that went into data centers. We did that to run the dot coms. But ultimately, when that part of the market crashed, it became very difficult for us to maintain that business. So we started restructuring the business, ultimately had to downsize, went through a very, very painful time where we had to we had to lay off groups of people to get there. And we emerged as a smaller company, more software focused, focused around SourceForge. And I'm very proud that we were able to sort of survive through that crash and downturn. But for me, it was a different business. And when I got it to that point, it was no longer as interesting or exciting for me. And it was time for me to go on and do something different. And what did you do in 2002? So at that point, looking for looking for kind of the next phase of my career, some friends of mine had joined, had created, had founded a venture capital firm up in San Francisco called Azure Capital. I loved, I loved the entrepreneur stage. I loved everything I'd learned there. And I had met many great people who were launching businesses. And many people told me that the VA Linux IPO had been very inspirational to them, particularly coming out of the open source software world with the idea that that you could create something here, you could create something potentially world changing. And so I I joined my friends up at Azure Capital and began to learn the venture capital side of the business. And I wanted to take my experiences and share them and help others that were looking to do that. And so I spent a few years up at Azure Capital, ultimately decided, it's a fantastic firm, I love, I love those guys. And they're all great friends. Today, to this day, ultimately decided that I really wanted to do it on my own, in the sense that I wanted to back and follow entrepreneurs that I wanted to spend time with, it didn't necessarily make sense for a firm to be investing in. So I spent I wanted to spend time with, it didn't necessarily make sense for a firm to be investing in. So I spent a few years at Azure Capital. And then I spent a few years on my own, angel investing, and helping early stage companies. Again, just early stage companies, again, just lucky enough to be involved with some fantastic entrepreneurs. Early on, people like Mark Fleury, who was the founder of JBoss, I sat on that board, and companies like Zensource, Spring, and Pentaho, Richard Daly over there built a incredible company around open source business intelligence. And I was lucky enough to be involved with many great open source primarily, businesses and entrepreneurs. Learned a ton. It's one of the things that I always, I was like doing things in my career where I learned new things. Going into venture capital was learning a new thing. Doing it on my own was learning a new thing. Every one of these companies, I learned tremendously from every one of those great entrepreneurs and CEOs. And along the way, I had been invited to come help out as an independent board member, and advisor to an open source company in the CRM space, SugarCRM. And so I joined the board over at SugarCRM and put a little money as an investor, and had spent several years on the board there. And there was a theme I was developing, which was that open source was moving up the software stack. Now there's the famous quote that software eats the world, and open source eats all software, if you will. Right? I did not coin those phrases, but very true. And I had spent more time moving up and learning business applications. Ultimately, the investors over at SugarCRM said, Larry, we need to figure out what to do with this business. We've been kind of stalled. Would you take a look at it? You're the operating person here. You've run the business. You know open source. You don't know CRM, but will you take a look? And I ultimately spent 10 years in that company. Grew it into, in many ways, I think a very influential company for the open source world in the CRM space. We had fantastic customers, such as IBM and Apple, SugarCRM customers, and grew that business for many years before selling into a private equity firm, XLKKR. Fantastic experience. Great, great team. I was lucky enough to be able to write off of the efforts of founders there, such as Quintor. Just incredible team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=4732.923,5206.644"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, so you became CEO in 2009?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5206.864,5209.253"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5210.489,5210.75"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And you left in 2019?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5210.83,5212.637"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5212.692,5213.013"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e What did you do in 2019?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5218.243,5219.47"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, so after we sold the company to XLKKR, I left SugarCRM. I got a call from Amazon, an interest in developing and building more of the software that was moving up the stack on AWS. Amazon had built a set of products, particular things like their Connect call center product, their WorkDocs file management product, messaging and communications, video conferencing, and chat. And they were trying to figure out what to do with these products, and they put them together into a group. And we're looking for someone to help grow and develop that and understand where to go with those applications on AWS. And if you are an entrepreneur, and you've been building in the mid to late 2000s, you're probably building on AWS. One of the things we had done at SugarCRM was move to AWS for many of our services. And this was a common theme. So I went over to AWS and was lucky enough to be able to run some very significant businesses there for a couple of years and help build those out. It was fantastic. I enjoyed it. It's it. It's a little bit of a different experience. Again, I wanted to learn. If you look at my career, I've made decisions all along the way to do things that I've never done before, because I want to learn and I want to understand, the way to do things that I've never done before, because I want to learn and I want to understand, and I want to stretch myself. And I'm never afraid to try things that I don't know how to do. I had a great experience over at AWS for that. Ultimately, I decided had a great experience over at AWS for that. Ultimately, I decided that I wasn't going to stay in that big company for a long time and went back to being an angel investor and advising and working with early stage companies. And that's what I'm doing today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5221.327,5377.004"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So did you move to Seattle when you...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5377.525,5378.928"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e I did not move to Seattle. I did Seattle part-time. So I had just the schedule that was every other week. So I'm a firm believer, just philosophically, that you have to be near the team and the people. And so I got an apartment in Seattle, and I went to Seattle every other week and spend time there. I also, by the way, had teams in the Bay Area. So I had offices in San Francisco and Seattle, and I had teams in Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Seattle, and around Washington, as well as around the country, working for me at AWS. And so I would go back and forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5382.842,5427.335"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So now that you're only focused on being an angel investor, what is your angel investment strategy? So, or let me rephrase, how did your strategy evolve from the beginning? And if it at all changed, if it evolved from the beginning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5428.942,5457.707"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure, sure, sure. It's interesting watching the history of open source and commercial companies, because it's gone through some cycles. Where it was very popular, less popular. Now, it's very popular, and it's very common. And I think many people realize that you can build a great, significant business around and related to and using open source technologies. And to the point where you'll see many companies that talk about proprietary software, and investors will look at them and actually ask the question, should you be doing some of this open source? So I don't mind open source, obviously. I've always felt one could build a great business around it. I've always felt that companies have been too protective of their source code. But in fact, the value is in the people and the culture and everything you've built around that, and and not necessarily in just access to the code. So I do a lot of open source. It's a long way of saying I do a lot of investing around open source, because I think it's a great, great incubator for great technologies. I love helping entrepreneurs that are first time entrepreneurs, that are trying to understand how to go through the process. I love seeing interesting technologies. I've been lucky enough to be at the forefront of some very interesting technological changes in our world and culture. Linux, open source, I spent time at AWS, the internet and web, I've just been around those. I think we are at a similar junction right now with AI. I know I'm not unique in saying that, but I believe that many types of software and applications are going to be fundamentally restructured in how they're built, and how they solve problems for people using AI. And so I look a lot of ways of just how can we rethink a problem and be able to solve it with AI. I mean, my computer science background comes out here a bit in the sense that there are many problems that are algorithmically very hard. Problems that we might traditionally have said fall into the NP complete path where they're non-polynomial time solutions. They're very complicated, and they're hard, and they take a lot of time to solve. But we can now, using machine learning, create some pretty good approximations to solutions that we couldn't in the past. We can now do processing around We can now do processing around natural language that we couldn't do in the past. I'm super excited about the things that we can do as a result of that. So those are some of the things, some of the things that I think about there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5457.907,5662.794"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e You don't look back at your life until now. What are your proudest achievements?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5666.304,5671.856"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I will start with something we haven't talked a lot about, but I have a wonderful family. My daughter is my proudest achievement. My daughter is my proudest achievement. She studied computer engineering and gaming, and theater, film, and television. So I'm just super proud as a dad. On the sort of career side, I'm proud that I've been able to help some people create the things that they've been able to do. In many ways, I look back, and I've said I'm something of a hack when it comes to being able to create things in code, and I'm super proud that I think I've been able to support and help some people who are just brilliant that have created some technology that makes the world better for everyone. There's a little bit for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5675.605,5748.336"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e And is there anything if you had your time again you would do differently?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5749.582,5755.675"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, it's hard to say because, you know, as I look back now, I realize how naive I was at every stage, but that's how we learn. So I'm not big on the would have, should have, could have done it differently. I think everyone has to go through the learning phases, and there's a ton of things that I got wrong all the time. There's a ton of, but I listened a lot, and I hope I learned from those, and I hope I don't, you know, I hope I've learned along the way, and that I get better, and I can impart some of that knowledge. But I also believe people also have to go through some of that. So this is a little of my philosophy when I advise entrepreneurs and companies. I give them advice, but I also think they have to learn themselves, and people make mistakes. That's part of the learning process. It's one of the things I think is great about the Silicon Valley culture is that it's a culture in which people learn from making mistakes, and you can make a mistake, and get better, and learn, and come back, and that's okay. So that's how I think about, that's how I think about that question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5758.665,5850.069"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e So what's your relationship with the community, you know, free and open source community, like what's your relationship with old acquaintances like Dolman, Torvalds, Mad Dog Hall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5854.524,5870.406"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e I was on the Clinics Foundation Board of Directors for a long time. I was an early person who helped get that organization going. I work with a lot of open source entrepreneurs today. I love that community. I don't spend as much time online as I used to. Now there's more time for family and other things in my life. But I still spend a lot of time, if you look at the angel investing and places where I go, I spend a lot of time with people there, and it's just been fantastic and lucky, and I've loved it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5870.606,5917.596"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe we already covered this a little bit because, you know, we were talking about learning from, you know, errors and mistakes that one can go through, but what advice would you give to someone willing to pursue your career?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5919.904,5933.643"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say a couple of things. One is pursue things that you love. I think that's very important. I have always made decisions for me about doing things that I personally thought were important or loved or enjoyed or wanted to be involved with. Not because I thought I could make money doing that, and I don't know if that's great advice. It's worked for me. I'll just say that. I have been lucky that it's left me in a position where I can continue to do more of that, and I think there's something to that. Pursuing things for passion, I think, brings you a certain depth to them that pursuing them just for money doesn't, so I always encourage that. I always encourage learning. You know, I go back to kind of my early life where I told the story, you know, you're in the field and the tractor breaks. I don't know anything about tractors, but I can figure it out, you know. I'll try it. What's the worst case? It's broken already, you know. Maybe I'll break it more, but maybe I'll fix it, and by the way, if I don't fix it, I don't know who is, so it's okay to dive into things that you don't know, and maybe you'll learn something along the way and improve things. I really encourage people with this. I worry sometimes that our society in some ways has become too cautious around people, you know, willing to just fix or figure out or dive in and solve a problem, and I encourage people. You don't know. You don't know how to do something. It's okay, you know, but by the way, you'll probably make mistakes, you know, figuring it out, but don't let that stop you. Try, learn, dive into things. Many of the things I've done in my career, I didn't know what I was doing when I started, but things I've done in my career, I didn't know what I was doing when I started, but I listened, I learned, and ultimately, ultimately, I helped create things that were better, and I learned a lot and educated a lot and educated myself in that, so take those risks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=5937.529,6109.879"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Elisabetta Mori:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there anything you would like to add that we haven't covered today? This","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580#t=6112.231,6115.58"},{"id":"https://fossda.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1633/collection_resources/127596/file/239580/transcript/66497/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Larry Augustin:\u003c/strong\u003e has been a great, wide-ranging discussion, and I want to thank you. 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